*********************************************

                DISCLAIMER: THIS CART FILE WAS PRODUCED FOR COMMUNICATION

    ACCESS AS AN ADA ACCOMMODATION AND MAY NOT BE 100% VERBATIM. THIS IS

    A DRAFT FILE AND HAS NOT BEEN PROOFREAD. IT IS SCAN-EDITED ONLY, AS

    PER CART INDUSTRY STANDARDS, AND MAY CONTAIN SOME PHONETICALLY

    REPRESENTED WORDS, INCORRECT SPELLINGS, TRANSMISSION ERRORS, AND

    STENOTYPE SYMBOLS OR NONSENSICAL WORDS. THIS IS NOT A LEGAL DOCUMENT

    AND MAY CONTAIN COPYRIGHTED, PRIVILEGED OR CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION.

             THIS FILE SHALL NOT BE DISCLOSED IN ANY FORM (WRITTEN OR

    ELECTRONIC) AS A VERBATIM TRANSCRIPT OR POSTED TO ANY WEBSITE OR

    PUBLIC FORUM OR SHARED WITHOUT THE EXPRESS WRITTEN CONSENT OF THE

    HIRING PARTY AND/OR THE CART PROVIDER. THIS IS NOT AN OFFICIAL

    TRANSCRIPT AND SHOULD NOT BE RELIED UPON FOR PURPOSES OF VERBATIM

    CITATION.

                     *********************************************





         January 30, 2023 Study Session...



         >> MS. THERESA RIEL:  I'm going to call the PCC Governing Board

    study session in session.

         >> DR. LEE LAMBERT:  Good afternoon, everyone.  Madam Chair, we

    have first up the presentation on our financial structure and budget

    overview by Dr. Dave Bea.

         Dave?

         >> DR. DAVID BEA:  Chairperson Riel, members of the board,

    Chancellor Lambert, colleagues and guests.  It's my pleasure to sort

    of give you an outline of the budget, the budget process, financial

    structure of the college, sort of as a follow-up to the earlier

    orientation that we had, but also to set the stage for how the budget

    is going to come together for fiscal year '24 in the next few months.

    That's really what the purpose of the discussion is today.

         Importantly, this is an introduction.  It is okay if you don't

    absorb everything.  There is going to be a much more in-depth study

    session in February which then leads into when some really important

    decisions start to happen in March.  But it happens soon, which is

    why I'm here talking to you tonight.

         Okay.  The college's budget is comprised of revenues and

    expenditures.  We are essentially a nonprofit government entity.  You

    think about our revenues and expenses have to match.  That is

    basically how the structure works.

         We will talk more about how the state forms and how the formality





    works, but the basic first takeaway is you try and make sure that

    your expenditures are in line with the revenues that you expect to

    get.

         We are a nonprofit entity.  We follow GASB reporting standards,

    which means we do fund-base accounting.  Might be a little bit

    confusing from a for-profit standpoint.  But basically what that is

    is you have different fund pockets that you will that are tied to the

    revenues that you get and the expenses then become aligned with those

    revenues that you get.

         Let me back it up and explain it from the standpoint of the

    easiest one from that standpoint to think of is restricted fund,

    funds that are restricted for purpose, whether it's the federal

    government is our biggest one that gives money specifically for

    financial aid.  It can only be used for financial aid.  It stays in

    that fund; it gets expensed out of that fund.

         The primary funds are the general fund, designated fund,

    restricted fund, capital fund, debt service fund.  I feel like I'm

    missing one.  And auxiliary funds.  In terms of the ones that are

    really important, general fund, designated fund, restricted are the

    ones that really to pay attention to.  Capital would be right after

    that.

         Auxiliary fund for us is services and expenses and revenues that

    we get, and it's called auxiliary because they are proximal to what

    the college's mission is, but they aren't at the center of the

    college's mission.





         So if you have gate receipts from athletics, it would be

    auxiliary revenue.  If you had dorms, dorm revenue would be

    considered auxiliary.  Books, for us, it's bookstore revenue, revenue

    that we get as a commission from our bookstore contract.

         I'm going to just go through these real quick.  This is just a

    headline of what's coming.  We are going to talk today a little bit

    about, more about expenditure limitation, because we touched on it

    earlier.  Budget management, stewardship.  And then the process we

    use to develop the budget.  Because it doesn't happen at once.  It

    happens through a series of conversations and a series of decisions

    that primarily happen in the spring.

         Okay.  The No. 1 most important takeaway is the budget sets the

    maximum amount the college is allowed to spend.  Just the top line.

    Really take away one thing from today.  The most important thing is

    that when the college develops the budget, and we go out to the

    taxpayers and we go out to the community, we are saying here is the

    absolute most we can spend.  We cannot go above that.  Legally we are

    bound to not go above that.

         Why it's important is because there are projections built into

    that.  We have to plan for contingencies, have to plan for, well,

    what if enrollment grows and you have to add classes like we were

    talking about earlier.  So we have reserves that are put in that we

    would only spend on the occasion of enrollment ticked up or we had a

    crisis of some sort.

         But it's why, if you look at the budget and the budget is in the





    neighborhood of I think it's $360 million this year, and then you

    looked at your financial statement from last year and you go, there

    is a big difference between what you actually spent and what the

    budget is, and that's because you have the capacity to do things in a

    given year that you may not in any given year but you need to be able

    to if something comes through.

         That was particularly important when COVID happened and the

    federal support was coming in.  We didn't know how much we were going

    to get in, but we had to be able to, we had to sort of beg the

    ability to spend the money, so that if the federal aid came in we

    would be able to spend it.

         So that's why there is extra capacity versus the actual -- what

    you'd say, okay, you hold my arm behind my back and you say, how much

    are we going to spend this next year, and it will be much closer to

    what's in the financial statement than what's in the budget.

    However, in the budget it's like this is the plan, this is what our

    priorities are, and we set some of these things like, for example,

    the capital fund, which funds like a building, we might put money in

    the capital budget to pay for construction, even though it takes some

    time for the actual expenses to happen, we want to have that money up

    front if it happens a little faster than we are expecting so we don't

    get stuck.

         The other thing that's important on this is we have certain

    statutes that we have to follow.  There are certain things that are

    sort of burdensome processes that happen, most of this is in June, we





    are required to take the information to the taxpayers, to our

    community, before we take the budget to the board for adoption.

         So in May, what we do is we take a preliminary budget and we say,

    does this look generally okay with you?  Do you support this?  So we

    can take this out to the taxpayers and show the taxpayers what the

    budget looks like so they can then have a public hearing and then be

    able to give comments if they have concerns or if they want to make

    comments related to the budget.

         That's part of the budget adoption process, so we have to plan

    for that and it's spelled out in statute to follow a certain way.  We

    have a certain format that we have to fill out the budget, according

    to the state statutes, et cetera.

         So there are certain things that we have to do, and then there

    are certain things that we do because it's the way the college does.

    So let me do a comparison.  When I was talking about the different

    funds, I said there is the general fund and then the designated fund.

    From the state's perspective, that is one and the same.  They don't

    care between the two.  To them, it's general fund.  Because what the

    designated fund means is that the college has decided to, for one

    reason or another, separate some things out in order to track them

    differently.

         It may be that the board has said, hey, we want to make sure that

    the athletics is a stand-alone operation.  Now, I mentioned

    athletics, not to be confusing here, but I said the gate revenue was

    auxiliary, but the athletic operations, maybe you want to have





    separate.  Or course fees that students pay that cover field trip

    expenses or cover certain licenses that they need to do as part of

    the class, those things we want to keep separate from the general

    fund so they don't get commingled.  So it's just a way to keep them

    and designate them as separate.

         Again, the state doesn't care.  For us, we talk about a general

    fund and designated fund as two separate things just so that we keep

    those things separate.  Cost center budgets that we do where we want

    things to be self-supporting are going to be located in the

    designated fund.  Like course fees are supposed to be like the

    expenses that you get related to course fees are supposed to be

    offset by the revenues that the students pay, right?  You don't want

    the students paying more than what they are getting, because it's

    supposed to be a direct thing.

         The other piece that's important, and this is also important from

    an accreditation standpoint is that we have to be able to show

    evidence that our budget, our budget process, how we allocate funds,

    is tied to the college's mission and the strategic priorities.  So we

    are often talking when we do the budget development with the board to

    make, sort of show a list of here are the priorities that we're

    working on this year, here's how it's aligned with the strategic

    plan, so that we can then when the HLC asks for that evidence and

    documentation, we're able to show here's how these things are linked.

         Let's talk a little bit specifically about the budget.  I

    mentioned $363 million in the current year, that's the all funds





    budget.  That's if you put all the different things I was talking

    about together, this is a slide that shows the pie of the different

    revenues.  So this gets at one of the questions that was asked

    earlier.

         As you can see, the big blue section on the right is property tax

    revenue.  That's our biggest single source of revenue.  Then you get

    grants, contracts, and financial aid.  Financial aid is big, but it

    doesn't really affect the college.  Most of the financial aid or the

    financial aid money is a pass-through to students.

         It comes to the college.  They apply for financial aid.  It comes

    to the college.  It offsets the tuition they may owe.  Then any

    remainder that they get, whether it's a Pell Grant or whether it's a

    loan, that remainder after tuition is a check that goes out to

    students.  So that helps defray their living expenses, book expenses,

    things like that.

         So that amount of money is sort of, yeah, it's there, but it's

    really, has a very specific purpose.  It doesn't actually help our

    operations at all.  It just is a flow-through.  It helps because it

    makes it affordable for students to come to the college.  It's

    critically important for that, but it doesn't offset the operating

    expenses.

         The next one down in terms of importance is tuition and fees.

    Then you have this big piece that's called college equity.  That's a

    little bit confusing.  College equity is when we were talking earlier

    about reserves and using reserve balance, that's what college equity





    is.

         So we had a very large piece of the pie in the current year's

    budget as that.  That's because we are finishing up our revenue bonds

    project, so there is money set aside that's in our fund balance

    that's actually outside of even the reserve I talked about earlier.

    We have money set aside for construction projects, and we have all

    these construction projects that are planned that will happen over

    the course of the next few years, and right now, it gets indicated

    it's using college equity because we built up money and we are paying

    down sort of the savings account, if you will, to pay for that.

         If you look back like ten years, it would not look like this at

    all.  That yellow piece of the pie would be pretty small.

         Then lastly, state aid and other revenue, you see unfortunately

    they look fairly inconsequential, they are important but they are not

    a very big part of the pie.  Tuition, property taxes.  When I get

    into the general and designated funds, when I talk about the

    operations of the college, it becomes even more apparent.

         On the expense side, again, this slide is all funds, so it

    includes all those big capital projects that I was talking about and

    includes reserves in case there are contingencies, things like that,

    that come up.  So you see the blue is all the different personnel

    expenses at the college.  The gray are operational expenses.  So

    those are contractual commitments, travel expenses, other operating

    expenses.

         Most of those things are contractual commitments like IT





    expenses, IT licenses and utilities expenses, things like that that

    are not very discretionary in reality.  There are things, basic

    things that we need to have things go forward on an annual basis.

         When I get to the general fund, I'm going to talk a little bit

    more about this.  Debt service, the college has revenue bonds that we

    are paying down and we have a small amount of operating leases that I

    mentioned at the board meeting, the last board meeting, for some

    capital equipment that we may or may not be thinking about paying

    down those leases.  It's a small amount of leases, but we do have a

    little bit of debt outside of the revenue bonds.

         I talked about the fund types already.  This is the combination,

    if you look at what you would generally consider our operating

    budget.  This is the budget that when we are going to talk in the

    next few months about putting together the budget, at least 90% of it

    is going to be talking about this.  This is what the general

    education expenses are, the personnel expenses, most people at the

    college.  And then again, like these operating expenses, the

    contractual commitments that I talked about.

         Looking at these pies, you see that then you get to the point

    where it's tuition and fees and property tax.  College equity shows

    up here.  Again, if you look 10 years ago, this also would be small.

    That's because it's using college equity, some of those reserves that

    at this point are not located in the capital fund, but they are

    getting transferred over to the capital fund for those capital

    projects.  So it's in the course of this annual cycle, the money will





    be transferred from the general fund to the capital fund for those

    projects.

         Again, normally that would be a small part of the pie in terms of

    revenue.  So you're basically talking about property tax, tuition and

    fees, and then you see tiny bits and pieces of other things.

         Investment income that we talked about earlier would be in here.

    Then a little bit of state aid is considered general designated fund,

    but some of that is considered restricted because there is a specific

    purpose for that.  It's useful for us, because it offsets normal

    expenses that we have.  So if it's designated for STEM and workforce

    development, we have lots of STEM and workforce development expenses,

    so the funding that comes in that has that restriction on it can be

    used for what is normal expense for us.

         On the right-hand side are the expenditures for the year.

    Particularly if you take out that transfer and the reserves, if you

    just pretend the green isn't there, because again, the reserves are a

    lot of the time we don't even spend that money.  It's set there for

    contingent purposes.  It's called a reserve because it hasn't been

    designated for purpose.  So it could be used for personnel, could be

    used for an equipment purpose, could be used to offset some unknown

    contingent event.  But it can't be categorized with these other

    categories at this point.

         So it's set aside and it says -- by the way, the board does have

    a contingent reserve of $3 million every year in case some unexpected

    event happened.  Knocking on Formica, it has not been used at any





    point in the time I have been here, and hopefully that will continue

    to be the case.  But anyway, that's the kind of thing that we have

    money set aside or the capacity to spend money if something should

    arise that was a big event that we didn't plan for or didn't expect.

    So there are contingent plans that are out there.

         The most important thing to look at with this was if you took

    out, particularly if you just took out the transfer, so let's just

    make this simple, so you take out the $39 million of transfer, again,

    that's stuff that's going to the capital fund, and you recast it,

    what you would be looking at is operations would be about 25% of the

    budget and personnel would be like 65% of the budget.

         In other words, the large majority of our operating expenses are

    personnel.  That is not unusual.  It is something, though, that you

    don't want it to be too much dependent -- you don't want to get too

    much of your budget to be spent on personnel, because it makes you

    inflexible, and it means you don't have money that you need to spend

    on other things like some of these operational things, contractual

    obligations for IT system enhancements, things like that.  So you

    have to be careful about that personnel.

         The Community College of San Francisco got into trouble because

    too much of their budget was put into personnel.  That means that

    they were really not able to adapt to some of the changing needs that

    they had and some of the things that popped up.

         It's just something to track.  We have metrics we track on an

    annual basis.  We will be sharing those with the board.  So I have





    under the metrics section of what I showed, there is a series of

    slides that on the upper right-hand corner has arrows.  Just to

    acclimate you, and we will share this again with you, so don't worry,

    you don't need to remember it, but the arrow logic is the arrows are

    up, sideways, or down.  Red, yellow, green.

         The idea with it is if it's green, the college, that's a good

    measure for the college.  If it's yellow, it's like, yeah, it's

    something we have to watch out for.  And if it's red it's really not

    where we want it to be.  It's something we have to really watch out

    for and start moving on.

         The arrows are signs of what is the trend on this, so if you had

    a red going down, it means that it's something that we have as a

    concern, and it's getting worse.

         Green going up is like this is a groovy measure.  We have

    examples of both.  The college overall is in strong financial

    position.  I will show you a chart that shows you that clearer than

    anything.  We are in good financial position, but we have a number of

    metrics that are concerns.  Everything that's related to enrollment.

    So we have measures that are expenditure per student or personnel per

    student.  All of those measures are not healthy measures, because our

    enrollment has dropped so much over time, and we haven't reduced

    those expenditures or those personnel lines aligned or akin to how

    much the enrollment has declined.

         If enrollment grows and we make some progress on those measures,

    then those will start, my little personal way to say is this good or





    bad, those will start to look better.

         So the takeaway is that -- yes?

         >> DR. WADE McLEAN:  So looking at the transfers and the

    reserves, that pie, that circle on the right, that's all the money we

    have?

         >> DR. DAVID BEA:  The circle on the right are the budgeted

    expenditures for the current year.

         >> DR. WADE McLEAN:  But that's all the money?

         >> DR. DAVID BEA:  No, it doesn't spend down -- no, no.  We still

    have reserves that are set aside.

         >> DR. WADE McLEAN:  So there are reserves that are not on there?

         >> DR. DAVID BEA:  Correct.  Yes.

         >> DR. WADE McLEAN:  So we would consider this transfer and

    reserves sort of our encumbered money?

         >> DR. DAVID BEA:  Yeah.  That would be a good way -- operating

    reserves or encumbered reserves.

         >> DR. WADE McLEAN:  So there is still another pot?

         >> DR. DAVID BEA:  Yes.

         >> DR. WADE McLEAN:  If it's not in the budget, it can't be spent

    the next year?

         >> DR. DAVID BEA:  Correct.  It's set aside -- yeah, right.  We

    have a capacity, and we can't go above --

         >> DR. WADE McLEAN:  So if there was an emergency, we could not

    spend those reserves?

         >> DR. DAVID BEA:  If there was an emergency, we still have





    capacity to spend probably enough to handle any emergency that

    happened -- let me walk you through it.

         >> DR. WADE McLEAN:  So there is a difference between our budget

    and our capacity?

         >> DR. DAVID BEA:  There is -- the budget is the capacity, those

    are the same, on an annual basis.  There is also other money that is

    not included in the capacity document.

         If there was a big contingent event, some really bad thing

    happened, there would be a series of things that happened that you

    would drop these expenses, you would cut some of these discretionary

    expenses so that those dropped down, and then you would have plenty

    of money to handle a contingent event.

         >> DR. WADE McLEAN:  So we would have additional cash that could

    be inserted in there, but we do not increase the capacity --

         >> DR. DAVID BEA:  Right.

         >> DR. WADE McLEAN:  -- expenditure capacity?

         >> DR. DAVID BEA:  At a certain point you could have that happen,

    but it is essentially -- it is essentially not possible.  We have

    enough capacity built in that it could handle any normal contingency

    or abnormal contingency.

         >> DR. WADE McLEAN:  So what's the number for the reserves?

         >> DR. DAVID BEA:  You want me to -- I will shoot ahead.

         >> DR. WADE McLEAN:  No, that's fine.

         >> DR. DAVID BEA:  No, no, that's fine.

         I mentioned earlier that the board has a policy that says that in





    order to be a fiscally prudent, smart organization, we want to ensure

    that the college has enough money on hand, reserves, and this is

    -- don't think budget.  Think this is in-the-bank money.  The college

    has enough money in the bank to be able to operate for essentially

    nine months at normal operations.

         So what this chart is showing you is this is our investments, so

    these are like savings account, like I referenced earlier, these are

    our savings accounts all added up.  The colors are cash and cash

    equivalents, again, that's the stuff we can get ahold of very, very

    quickly.

         There are short-term investments, which is not hard, and you can

    liquidate them.  You may just have to pay a little bit to do that.

    And the longer terms are more like the three- to five-year bonds.

    Short term would be more like one month -- I think it's one month

    duration to like two years.  Average would be around a year.  So they

    are maturing off like regularly.

         Anyway, so this is money that we have, right?  This is above

    everything else, money that we essentially have in our savings

    account.  The red dot there is that is the reserve that we want to

    make sure we keep an eye on that target.  That would be worth nine

    months of normal operations in a given year.

         So we have enough money in the bank in savings, if no other

    revenue came in -- so now let's talk about what that means in terms

    of a real emergency, like something really bad happens.  This is why

    it's all theoretical.





         Say something really bad happened.  Don't even want to speculate.

    Something bad.  No one is paying tuition anymore, no property taxes

    coming in, no money is coming in from the federal government.  We are

    on our own.

         This would enable us, we would have enough money in our accounts,

    like money available, to operate as normal for nine months.  So it's

    a very conservative amount of money that we have, that we keep set

    aside.

         >> DR. WADE McLEAN:  So an example would be if we went into a

    deep depression and people weren't paying their property taxes, we

    would have enough cash to make up the difference?

         >> DR. DAVID BEA:  To keep operating for a long time.  Yes.  Yes,

    that's exactly the takeaway.

         So that's one component of it, but again, that sort of is on the

    side of the budget.  That's operations and financial management.

         >> DR. LEE LAMBERT:  Dave, will you talk a little bit about the

    significance of why you have that 75% reserve beyond what you said,

    because the legislature also looks at what we have in the bank.

    Right.  Can you talk about...

         >> DR. DAVID BEA:  Yeah, so there are two other --

         >> DR. WADE McLEAN:  The next question would be can they sweep

    it?

         >> DR. DAVID BEA:  Great question.  Boy, this is going off

    -- this is not so much related to the budget, but these are great

    financial questions.  Okay.  (Laughter.)





         So I will start with -- so the statute says that for a college to

    be, I can't remember exactly how it's said, but it basically says

    that in order to be a college you have to be able to operate for nine

    months.  That's what Lee is referencing.

         We also use that as a good measure, because there are other

    components that if we have something that keeps a good reserve on

    hand, it has other effects that are really critical.  The HLC looks

    at our financial ratios, and if you don't have money in reserves of a

    decent type, the HLC will start questioning whether you actually have

    the ability to properly operate.

         On top of that, credit agencies look at that.  We get credit

    ratings, Moody's and Fitch's, for example, provide our regularly due

    credit ratings at the college because of our revenue bonds, so they

    look at that.  And if you don't have a good amount of money on hand

    in reserves and you don't have good policies to maintain reserves,

    you will have a lousy credit rating, and then it's harder to borrow

    money, et cetera.  So you get into trouble multiple ways, right?

         You potentially could get in trouble with the state legislature,

    you would get in trouble with the HLC, you'd have to show how are you

    going to get back to being financially responsible, and then you also

    then couldn't borrow money, at least you couldn't borrow it at any

    reasonable rate because you'd be kind of in chunk status.  So that

    one measure sort of ensures that the college is in good standing with

    all of those key measures.

         The other thing that it does is it helps us make sure that we go,





    once we get above that threshold, so you notice that we are above

    that dotted line, that dot, what that is saying is, okay, board,

    let's think about how do we take those reserves and reinvest them

    back into the college so that we don't have to increase tuition to

    build a new building or we don't have to do X, Y, or Z.  Let's spend

    down some of this savings we have but not too much, right?  Let's

    keep it at a really responsible place but know that we have some

    money set aside that would enable us to do that.

         So we have a couple of capital projects.  Remember the equity

    piece of pie is pretty big, right?  So building the center of

    excellence for health and doing some other capital upgrades that we

    are doing are all coming out of that part of the reserves section.

         Now, if we finish the year in a positive way, it's just going to

    add more money to that so it will offset that.  So it's a flow that

    happens multiple years running that you just keep track, and that's

    why it's good to see it, how has this grown over time.

         To look back where it was dipping down there, down there, that

    was when the college did two things.  We built the building at

    Northwest, the science building, so we cash-funded that building.  We

    paid for it out of our reserves.

         We also did a couple of renovations.  One at West Campus, there

    was a sports facility, the FSS, I think that area, we did a

    renovation there, and then we paid down the outstanding debt that we

    had.  We had a lease purchase obligation with the cooperative that

    was related to Northwest Campus, and we paid off that lease.





         So we basically temporarily deficit spent, spent down the net on

    a couple of years.  That's why it sort of dips down.  And then since

    then we are back into better healthy operations.  But that was a

    plan.  That wasn't a mistake that that happened.

         >> DR. LEE LAMBERT:  Can I just make two points about this, going

    back to the sweeping.  This helps with the sweeping issue, because we

    can show that we do have a use for that account, that we have

    evidence that we have used it for other purposes.  So that's point

    No. 1.

         Point No. 2 is this is one-time money.  So once it's spent, it's

    spent.  So it's tempting to think, oh, we will use that for ongoing

    operational purposes, but in reality it's not really going to buy you

    that long-term operational commitment, so just being mindful about

    that.

         >> DR. DAVID BEA:  And then to get to the question about can the

    state sweep it, I think that's probably a legal question, but back

    then, so back in fiscal year '09 is when the budget started getting

    reduced by the state.  That's when they started cutting us severely.

    There were definitely discussions that we were hearing that they were

    looking at the reserves that different colleges had.

         I don't think it would resort to that, and actually I think that

    there is a legal challenge because we are legally separate.  However,

    that's where we are getting to what Chancellor Lambert just

    mentioned, having a responsible plan, showing that we are obligating

    some of those for future capital projects which we do in the state





    budget forms.  We have it reserved.  There is sort of a line that is

    shown that says for future capital needs, or we have a line that's

    not, so it's not in the budget.  It's outside of the budget.  But

    it's a line that basically says, but we are planning to spend it, so

    don't think you can come get it.

         I don't think (knocking on wood) -- I think it would be a legal

    challenge, but on the other hand, I wouldn't want to test it.  Now,

    what they did do is they knew those reserves existed.  They knew

    Maricopa had a very large reserve.  So when they cut the funding that

    went to Maricopa and Pima, that was definitely in their mindset, like

    it was pretty clear to me that they knew that Maricopa and Pima,

    Maricopa in particular, had some reserves on hand.

         I think they realized they couldn't just grab it because they

    were talking about doing that with K12s, so then they did the

    next-best thing, which is, okay, we are not going to provide any

    operating funding for you, so you'll have to eat it, basically, eat

    it over time.

         Hopefully that makes sense.  Okay.  That's a really good point,

    though, Lee, thanks for that.

         So back to this.  So again, the big takeaway today is a large

    proportion of our operating budget is personnel.  On an ongoing

    basis, that is also when personnel expects annual increases, and with

    our most recent class comp adjustment, there is a key element that

    we're going to have to talk about in the budget, is to align the

    class comp structure to market, the way it's set up is it assumes





    that people will be at the midpoint of what their market basis

    comparison position is after an average number of eight years.  So

    eight years of experience in a position, you should be at market

    average, is essentially what that's saying.

         That kind of makes sense, it's sort of intuitive.  Well, if

    someone is hired in and they are hired in at the minimum of the

    grade, they are below that eight-year point.  What we have built in

    now is a class comp structure that for every year of experience up

    to, at this point we have caps at step 12, people will move up in the

    scale.

         So it's sort of a built-in obligation to move people up based on

    their years of experience and additional value that they now have.

    They're more experienced.  They know their jobs better.  They are

    more valuable to the college.  That ongoing obligation is probably in

    the neighborhood of $5 million a year.

         So we now have to figure out how to sustain that from a revenue

    standpoint to the tune of about $5 million.  Again, I'm going to keep

    it simple.  In February we are going to get into the numbers, but I

    want to give you, okay, let's think this through.

         Now, looking on our left-hand side, we have about $5 million just

    on personnel that we at least want to be able to do every year.  On

    the left-hand side, okay, what revenues are going to sustain that $5

    million, year-over-year changes.

         Property tax, the way it works, is it's sort of a combination of

    two-plus things.  The first thing is if there is growth in new





    property in Pima County, you get all of the tax dollars from that new

    property.  So I always like to think of it as picture a street that

    has four houses on it and someone builds a fifth house.  As soon as

    that fifth house is built, now those people pay to us.  Whereas for

    those four existing houses, the way it works for them is year over

    year, if the board doesn't go through a truth-in-taxation process,

    their taxes year over year stay flat.

         The board has the ability to increase the tax levy by 2% a year.

    So say that example that I just talked about, say that value of the

    house they are paying $200 a year, what that means is for that 200,

    for that house that existed, for those four existing houses, if the

    board approves that 2% tax levy increase, that means that they are

    paying 2% more than they were the year before, all other things being

    equal.  There are other variables, but all other things being equal.

         So that increases it from $200 plus 2% so that's plus $4.  So

    it's $204 for their tax bill.  The new house now is paying $200.  The

    old house is going from $200 to $204.  So it's a small increase for

    the existing properties, a big change for the new but it's new,

    right?

         So the college gets all of that new growth money.  We have to

    project it.  We will get that number in a matter of weeks.  That

    number is probably in the neighborhood of $1.5 million.

         So the board doesn't have to do anything.  The college doesn't

    have to do anything.  That's just for our serving a bigger population

    of people, essentially population in terms of properties.





         So think in terms of this.  So I said $5 million on the

    right-hand side.  On the left-hand side we have about a million and a

    half.  Then between the growth of 207 money, which is the money

    coming in from the Smart & Safe Arizona, legalized marijuana money

    and the growth in investment earnings, think that's probably a

    million and a half growth year over year for those two things.  So

    between those two things, property tax growth and then the 207 money

    and investment earnings, plus 3 million.

         So left-hand side, easy to say, $3 million.  Right-hand side,

    negative 5 million.  So we will have the conversation about how do we

    approach that?  Because the answer is do we look at a tuition

    increase?  The board can increase the levy by 2% a year, and it can

    go all the way up to what's called the levy maximum.  The levy

    maximum is what you started plus 2% every year.  So if you don't do

    2% every year, you still retain the ability to go all the way to that

    point.

         We have reserve money in the levy max, and so last year we

    increased the levy by 4%.  We have another 4% this coming year.  We

    have additional tax capacity that we can tap into.  So we will talk

    more again.  I don't want to overwhelm you.  We will talk more about

    that in February what that means and what that would look like.

         I don't want to freak you out, okay, we have new commitments or

    ongoing commitments of at least $5 million and you're telling me we

    only have $3 million, why did I get on this board?  No, there are

    answers and solutions to that.  That's sort of a good starting point





    to at least kind of noodle in your head a little bit.

         >> MS. THERESA RIEL:  So back to the 75% cap, whatever you called

    that, you know, the each of those bars is $20 million, and we are

    currently well over that 75% mark.  So, I mean, we don't necessarily

    have to balance that on a tuition increase?  There are other options?

         >> DR. DAVID BEA:  That gets to what Lee was saying.  What you

    want to ensure is that you create a budget that has sustained the

    revenues, normal operating revenues that you get are offsetting the

    normal operating expenses.

         What happens, yes, you theoretically can do what you are doing,

    but what you're doing is deficit spending and taking what Lee was

    referring to as one-time money and you're basically obligating that

    into the future, and it's not a strong, solid, smart financial

    -- it's not sustainable.

         >> MS. THERESA RIEL:  But there are other things the college

    could do, too, right?  We could look at some of those expenses we

    currently have and decide where we could trim off maybe nonessentials

    and monies that don't actually help impact education in the best way?

         >> DR. DAVID BEA:  Yeah, so reducing expenses is the other way to

    stay within the means, yes.  That will be part of the conversation.

         A lot of what the college is trying to really focus on

    historically is reallocating resources.  So as you identify that you

    need more money in one area, what do we need -- what can we do less

    of?  What do we not need to do as much so we can shift those

    resources over, and continuing to do that as a college is a good way





    to also -- that doesn't net to zero, but it's how you start doing

    things, how you do things differently or new things, new initiatives,

    without totally adding is the reallocating the currently existing

    money.

         >> MR. GREG TAYLOR:  I have a question.  Forgive me if I

    misunderstood you.  I will start with clarifying.

         You said during the period of enrollment declines, the college

    hasn't really done anything to reduce personnel or at least not

    proportionately.  Did I understand that correctly?

         >> DR. DAVID BEA:  I said not commensurate to.  We have, yes.  We

    actually went through a period of time pre-COVID that we actually

    went through, because of expenditure limitation which is coming,

    sadly, sorry, because of expenditure limitation, we were in a

    position where we absolutely had to reduce expenses.

         We did reduce expenditures very significantly and effectively for

    the period of three years.  We had a three-year plan and reduced more

    than 200 positions over that period of time.

         But when I was saying the reductions that I was just talking

    about, so since COVID, the enrollment dropped dramatically, and we

    didn't turn around and lay people off.  We maintained the staffing

    resources at a flat level.  That's really what I was saying.

         So we have done it in the past where we reduced over time but not

    consistent and not in the same proportions as the enrollment declines

    have happened.

         >> MR. GREG TAYLOR:  So as part of this budgeting into the





    future, are you looking at, given where the enrollment is now, or

    maybe projecting enrollment, would be great if it went up, but like

    at some point there is like a right-sizing, right, where it's like

    this is the amount of students we actually have and what do we need

    to serve them?  Is that happening?

         >> DR. DAVID BEA:  Yeah.  Go ahead, Lee.

         >> DR. LEE LAMBERT:  We are developing a three-year plan.  That's

    kind of to what your point is for that purpose.  Because I want to

    separate out the expenditure limit from just running an effective

    operation based on what you're there to do.

         So if we have less students, obviously we don't need what we

    currently have to service them.  Even though we may have the revenue

    to do that, is that good operational practice to do that?

         Now, I will use an example from the past here.  So when I first

    came onboard, one of the questions I asked the HLC is why has Pima

    been struggling for so long with accreditation?  Well, one of the

    issues they pointed out to me was you're accredited as a single

    college; however, you have been operating as if you were six separate

    colleges.  And because of that siloing effect, you're having

    problems.  Because we look at you as one.  We are looking for

    standard systems and processes.  But you have six different ones.

         So when you take that into account, in our earlier three-year

    plan as well as some other things before that, as you saw, we went

    from six college campus presidents down to one.  We used to have VPs

    at each campus.  We reduced that down significantly, as well as





    deans.  So I think keeping the two things separate.  Yes, we may have

    the revenue, but is that the best way to use it when your operations

    doesn't require it.

         So we are constantly keeping that in mind.

         >> DR. DAVID BEA:  I know we are getting to the end of my time

    here, so we talked about expenditure limitation earlier.  We will

    talk about it more.  It isn't our most pervasive problem.  It is

    something you're going to be hearing about, because it is other

    colleges' biggest problem.

         Because of Prop 481 we have a good amount of capacity now to work

    through our issue now, whereas a few years ago it drove us.  We did

    not have a choice.  We had to reduce over the course of time to hit

    where we knew we were going to be with expenditure limitation.

         Now the issue is let's right-size the college.  Let's align us

    properly to the size that is sufficient to provide really strong

    educational service to the community but is also responsible and that

    we would be good stewards of public funds that way.  That's what the

    right-sizing is going to be.

         That's why, if you have seen in some of the earlier presentations

    talking about staffing ratios, it's not, again, and I said this

    earlier, it's not that we are saying thou shalt be 102 positions.  It

    is, okay, when we are at 200 and it's kind of saying, the measure is

    saying we should be closer to 100, let's move ourselves closer to the

    100.  That's how we have been approaching it.

         That's what we will be talking about with the development of the





    three-year plan in the coming months and getting direction and

    guidance from the board on that as well.

         >> DR. LEE LAMBERT:  To that point, this is why we need your

    input.  If you're telling us, no, go ahead and keep spending at that

    level and don't reduce your current staffing, we need to know that.

         But if you're like, no, I think you need to make sure that you're

    running efficiently to the actual students you're in service to,

    well, that's a different conversation.  That's a tough conversation,

    because that means you are right-sizing.  But we need to know how you

    feel about all of that, because that affects our planning work

    internally.

         >> DR. DAVID BEA:  This slide, and I'm not going to talk much

    about this, other than this is sort of a very simple way to think

    about expenditure limitation.  Expenditure limitation, it's sort of

    like you have the budget, you have revenues and expense.  That's

    reality.  That's how we live our normal lives.  Then you add this

    expenditure limitation, which is sort of this overarching lens that

    you also have to make sure you fall within those rules.

         Again, it's not our biggest problem.  It is something that we

    will be talking a lot about, and Lee and I will be helping at the

    state level to make sure that the other colleges in their response to

    address their expenditure limitation problems, that we guide them so

    that it doesn't have an adverse effect on Pima.

         Again, what 481 did was a huge benefit in terms of providing the

    capacity we need to properly manage this college.  Others are sort of





    going, okay, now we are in the same position that Pima was in four

    years ago.  Again, that's a lot of because of the COVID enrollment

    declines, that sudden drop, had a pretty big effect.

         Just so that I can say one thing about this is if you see on the

    right-hand side, tuition and fees are outside, remember that earlier

    I said the purpose of expenditure limitation is to control taxes.

    Expenditure limitation doesn't care if you charge private school

    tuition to our students.  What would happen is we would have an

    expenditure limit, but if we funded it completely out of a gigantic

    tuition charge, we would not have an EL problem.  We'd have a limit,

    but we would have zero dollars expensed against it because the

    tuition would fund everything at the college.

         It's a little bit quirky, but the idea is remember it's about

    controlling taxes.  Again, big takeaway, it's about controlling taxes

    and the growth in property taxes.

         I talked about this earlier, so I think I can go through this

    relatively quickly.  We have parameters and board policies that

    govern how we manage and that we are prudent stewards of public

    funds, that we are responsible in terms of how we budget, and that we

    have good reserve structures in place.  Again, not only to make sure

    that we have healthy reserves like we talked about but also that we

    have money readily available if a crisis happened tomorrow.

         We would have cash available if we needed it, but then it's also

    prudent for us to make sure that we are also taking advantage of the

    money that we have on hand and investing it wisely.





         So that's what that 4.07 is about that, making sure you have a

    reserve and then sort of dictating that you invest it as wisely as we

    can.

         I think that gets through the key things.  So timeline, I

    mentioned earlier, March is going to be critical because -- and we

    will have a study session in February.  March is critical because

    that's when we set tuition rates for next year.

         We do that in March, because the class schedules open for people

    to enroll for fall soon after that March meeting.  The purpose is we

    want to have the tuition set.  We are not required to set it that

    early.  We set it that early so that we don't change tuition on

    students and have to say, yeah, you enrolled early, we charged you X,

    and now we have to charge you X + 5.

         So the idea is set tuition as early, at that March meeting.  We

    will talk about taxes at the same time, because again, that's how it

    fits into the whole how do you balance these things.

         Then as I mentioned earlier, we will be setting the benefit plan

    structures.  The good news is there shouldn't be any dramatic changes

    for benefit plan structures this coming year.  There is a little bit

    of cost increase that we know about for a medical plan, but it's not

    anything the college can't absorb sort of within the budget.  I will

    talk more closely about that.

         As I mentioned earlier, May is when we give the preliminary

    budget.  We talk about specific capital projects we would like to do

    going forward and get the approval from the board to go out to the





    taxpayers, and then we put notices in the newspaper, and then have

    the public meeting in June and formally adopt the budget for next

    year in June.

         Okay.  I got through a lot.  I know there was a lot.  Don't feel

    like you needed to memorize or hear all of it.  I think I hammered

    home the things I really want you to take away.  We will be talking

    in February at the study session more clearly about some specific

    numbers.

         With that, I will ask if the board has any more questions for me.

         >> MR. GREG TAYLOR:  I just have a timeline-related -- related to

    that timeline, you said, Chancellor, you were just saying a minute

    ago you needed some direction from us in terms of that strategic

    approach.  Like when along this timeline do you need us to have that

    conversation so that you can put together or your team can put

    together whatever you need?

         >> DR. LEE LAMBERT:  If you go back to our discussion during the

    retreat, we talked about priorities.  If I recall correctly, I talked

    about there is three things that the board must absolutely do.  One

    is the overarching accreditation oversight, and the other one was

    this.  And then the third one being the board's monitoring piece.

         Why I said that was we are going to have these discussions in

    study sessions between now and then, and it's in those study sessions

    where we get that insight from you.  So the question is only do you

    want that at every study session that we are talking about these

    different points along the way, or are you comfortable, we can wait





    till the February study session to talk about tuition, and then we

    will skip the April study session and then come back and pick it up

    after May or whatever, how you want to do it, right.

         But I would suggest that every study session we talk about this,

    especially since this all new, in terms of how we do things, and that

    way we know all along the way where you're thinking, and then you get

    a sense from us how we might suggest different options.

         But that's going to take up time and bandwidth that takes away

    from maybe addressing some other things you may have an interest in.

    But it's up to you.

         >> DR. DAVID BEA:  Any other questions?

         Well, thank you for your patience today.  It's been a lot of

    stuff thrown at you.  I will look forward to continuing conversations

    in coming months.  Thanks.

         >> MS. THERESA RIEL:  Thank you, David.

         >> DR. LEE LAMBERT:  I'd like to invite Libby Howell up with

    Joseph, and we are going to talk about our upcoming trip to

    Washington, D.C., and so we want to prepare you on the issues that

    are likely to be discussed and that we are going to discuss with the

    members, as well as some logistics so you kind of have a sense of

    what to expect from that perspective.

         With that, I will turn it over to you, Libby.

         >> LIBBY HOWELL:  Good afternoon.  I'm Libby Howell.  I'm the

    executive director of media community and government relations for

    the college.





         This is my colleague, Joseph Mais.  Joseph is somewhat new to the

    college, he started in October, but he has lots of experience in

    government relations.  He's a member of the Arizona Bar, he's a

    former school teacher, and he worked in Washington, D.C.,

    extensively.  He worked for the Obama Administration, for Congressman

    Grijalva, and for the Department of Ed.

         So you'll be hearing a lot from him, because he's going to be

    your fearless leader on this trip because of his extensive experience

    in Washington.

         So I'm going to give you a little bit of the overview of what the

    trip is about, and then I'll turn it over to Joseph.  And, yes, we

    have given you homework.  (Laughter.)

         This trip is interesting from a bunch of different directions.

    It is a conference.  There are wonderful sessions that are sponsored

    as part of the conference, educational sessions helping you to be

    better board members to tell you what's going on in the Washington

    scene.

         I really encourage you to attend those functions.  There will be

    luncheons and dinners and all the stuff that you expect at a

    convention.

         It also is the National Congressional Summit for Community

    Colleges.  For that, ACCT works in partnership with AACC.  So the

    Association of Community College Trustees is your trade organization,

    if you will.  It's specifically directed to governing board members

    and how to help them do their job better and to give them the kind of





    information that they need.

         The American Association of Community Colleges are the colleges'

    trade organization.  Those two organizations work closely together.

    They both have large lobbying staffs.  So we try to, you know,

    coordinate what we are interested in.  We give them feedback about

    what our issues are.  They tell us what's possible.

         They work very closely with our own, Pima's own federal lobbyist,

    whom I believe Board Member Gonzales has met before, but you'll get

    to meet Tracy Tucker when you get there.  She really is a fine, fine

    lobbyist for the college.  Excellent reputation on the Hill.  Very

    knowledgeable.

         They have a consultant that they work with who is a former

    Department of Ed expert.  She brings a lot to the plate.  She and

    Joseph will be helping guide you through our meetings with the

    members on the Hill.

         Our purpose in doing this visit is to position Pima as a thought

    leader on the national scene in terms of community colleges, and also

    to keep our members of congress informed on what's going on here.

         For example, you know, a lot of people, a lot of the elected

    officials in congress don't realize that shrinking enrollments at the

    college level is a national issue because of the declining birth

    rate.  They may not realize that here in Pima County we have a

    declining high school graduation rate which affects the community

    college.

         So this is a good opportunity for us to bring those issues to





    them, but it's also a good opportunity to brag, if you will, about

    our solutions, to talk about the dynamic programs that are going on

    here at the college, and to help them understand how those pieces of

    legislation that they might be discussing could impact us here on the

    ground.

         The other kind of fun thing about this trip is we always bring

    students.  As much as I'd like to think that Joseph and I have an

    important voice, I'm here to tell you, all they care about is talking

    to the students.  They want to know their stories.  They want to hear

    about their struggles.  They want to hear about what works for them,

    what hasn't worked.  Because it keeps what we do real to them.  We

    have three really fine students who are going this year.  Joseph will

    tell you more about that.

         So we have put together a booklet for you that will give you

    information.  Joseph is going to tell you about that.  The one

    section I really want to emphasize that you take a look at is the one

    I marked with asterisks about our talking points.  That gives you

    kind of in-the-weeds information that might be helpful to you.

         The other thing I want to mention before I turn it over to Joseph

    is some of these meetings will take place with members of congress,

    and some of them will take place with their staff.

         Please don't be disappointed if you're talking to a staff member,

    because, I'm sorry, they make the world go round.  They are the folks

    who really continually can keep us in touch with our elected official

    and can be so helpful to us.





         Some of the meetings we may need to divide because some of the

    offices are pretty small.  We have a large delegation this year.  We

    will make sure that one group has Tracy, one group has Joseph, so

    that you never feel like you have been left to the wolves.

         Is there anything else I should mention about the kind of

    overview of the...

         >> DR. LEE LAMBERT:  So let me add this.  So there is always

    going to be a time restriction on any of the meetings that we have.

    There is always more issues than the time allots.  So we usually will

    focus on probably two to three issues and then speak to them

    accordingly.

         Because you will hear about a lot of different issues and needs

    across the country.  But we want to use the students' voice to

    emphasize some key pieces.  Usually Pell is one of those.  TRiO

    Program funding is another one of those.  Those are examples.

         As Libby pointed out, those student voices carry a lot of weight

    with our lawmakers here in Southern Arizona, especially.

         >> LIBBY HOWELL:  The one other thing I will mention, at the

    beginning of that talking points document, I mention what we should

    thank them for.  We have been incredibly lucky in the support that we

    have received from our congressional delegation.  We have now gotten

    our second federal appropriation.  That brings it to like about $2.5

    million that we have gotten through that.

         Senator Sinema asked us to participate in a field hearing that

    she had about the aviation industry, and Pima was the only





    maintenance and repair training facility that she invited to

    participate in that.  Greg Wilson was the person who was the person

    who actually did that.  There have been a lot of ways that they have

    supported us.

         Senator Kelly has introduced a bill that will provide grants for

    aviation.  It's just really important that when you are in there that

    you wax ecstatic and let them know what we are so grateful for.

         With that, I will turn it over to Joseph.

         >> JOSEPH MAIS:  Thank you.  Chair Riel, members of the board,

    I'm Joseph Mais, as Libby introduced me.  I'm going on the trip with

    you.

         I had sort of three things I wanted to touch on here.  One was to

    sort of give you an introduction to the students who are joining us,

    just tell you a little bit about them and why we picked them.

         And then I want to walk you through a little bit of this binder,

    things to focus on, and then sort of capstone many of the things that

    have been said already that are sort of big things we should keep in

    mind while we are on the trip.

         Talking about some of the students, the three students, we have

    three really talented Pima Community College students who are joining

    us.  They all bring sort of a very unique perspective of what Pima

    offers.  I think one of the main goals here, right, is to focus on

    the federal support that the college receives to help students like

    them succeed.  That's a big part of the message we want to bring.

         So the first student, her name is Melissa Ortiz, and she's a





    mother of three who came back to college after several years away

    raising her family.  She thought she wanted to get some programming

    skills.  She thought she'd make herself more marketable.  Along the

    way she discovered a passion and a talent for cybersecurity.  She's

    currently working on her networking and cyber AAS here at Pima.

         Thanks to an his STEM Grant, Melissa happens to be an employee of

    PCC as well.  She serves as a data center specialist and has also

    been working to promote Hispanic and Latino cyber and technology

    community to achieve greater representation and helped to found the

    Tucson chapter of Raices Cyber, which is sort of an organization that

    does that to bring cyber awareness and technology to Latino and

    Hispanic community around the country.  So the Tucson chapter is

    thanks to her work.

         The second student is Angelo Thomas, and he's an HVAC student in

    building and construction technologies here.  He's a veteran.  He's a

    recipient of the Metallica scholarship, which is a pretty cool thing

    Pima has been part of.

         He's very well spoken, a really smart guy, very dynamic, and he's

    told us that after he completes his work here at Pima he's planning

    to go on to NAU to do a degree in construction management in which he

    wants to learn sort of management skills and bring that business back

    to Tucson to do some sustainable HVAC work which doesn't -- it's sort

    of new technologies that he wants to sort of train people and start a

    business here, which is pretty great.

         Our third student is Erica Monreal, who is completing her first





    year at PCC.  She's a low-income student who currently works at

    Amazon to support herself.  Her family is all in Mexico, and so she

    is living with an uncle and supporting herself here.  She's also a

    TRiO Grant recipient, which is another important federal program.

    She's also incredibly motivated, ambitious, really dynamic and fun to

    listen to.  She plans to go to law school and become an attorney and

    she's very motivated.

         All three of these students are very different but bring

    something really, really exciting to the table.

         >> LIBBY HOWELL:  If I could just interject, so we have I think

    all three of them are first-generation college students.  We have a

    TRiO student, we have a veteran.  One is that stereotypical age for a

    college student, fresh out of high school, and then the other two are

    a little older.  We really do have a nice, diverse group.

         >> JOSEPH MAIS:  Yes, so those are our students who really put a

    face and a voice behind some of the things we do here at Pima and to

    sort of bring credit to the great work we are doing.

         I want to walk you through some of the material that's here.

         >> DR. LEE LAMBERT:  Let me just pause for a moment, Joseph.

         Not every college will be bringing students.  Pima is arguably

    one of the exceptions, not the rule.  We have that to be proud of.

    You'll see other districts, but we have been consistent about

    involving students in the process.

         Some of our students, this may be the first time on an airplane.

    I'm not sure if that's the case with these, but we have had students





    in the past who have never been on a plane, and for many never

    certainly been to Washington, D.C.  This is a big deal for many of

    them.

         >> JOSEPH MAIS:  Thanks, yes.  They are very excited.  We did a

    sort of Zoom call I did with them, and they're really excited about

    this trip.  That will be great.

         So just walking through the tabs sort of on the right here, just

    to give you a quick synopsis of things, at the beginning we put the

    itinerary as it currently stands.  Tracy Tucker is in the process of

    setting up meetings, which is herding cats in D.C. is a hard process

    to do.  Elected officials, especially now, sort of a new term of

    congress, they have only been there a few weeks, and they are still

    getting used to the rhythm of the new term, when are the hearing

    schedules, when are things going to happen.

         They are reluctant to set up meetings far in advance.  Tracy told

    us that the offices have all sort of committed to this week to giving

    her a time when they can solidify things.

         So this obviously will be getting updated as we go.

         >> LIBBY HOWELL:  But don't be surprised if we have last-minute

    changes.  As something happens they have to be on the floor to vote,

    or, you know, a sudden committee comes up, because that happens all

    the time.  Of course we try to rearrange the schedule so that we can

    still do it.

         >> JOSEPH MAIS:  Right.  As Libby mentioned, occasionally we will

    have simultaneous meetings and we can manage that as they come up.





         So that is sort of -- you will see there is a lot of the things

    that are on the ACCT website.

         >> DR. WADE McLEAN:  Could you be a little more specific, keep it

    simple for me?  What meetings do we want to be in attendance?  Does

    it start with Monday at 8:00?

         >> JOSEPH MAIS:  Yeah, a big chunk of Monday is the ACCT

    conference.  So Monday is sort of the biggest day for the conference

    where it will be, you know, there will be breakouts for different

    trustees.  As Libby mentioned, some of it is sort of like helping

    trustees understand sort of a universal role that they do in

    different community colleges around the country, and so it's a way to

    sort of put heads together and strategize a national plan or ways to

    manage the work that you do.

         >> DR. LEE LAMBERT:  So let me add to that, because that first

    day -- well, so Sunday is preconference day.  So some of you, if not

    all of you, are signed up for a preconference.  That's self-contained

    as far as the schedule goes.

         Then we roll into Monday.  I kind of recommend that you go to the

    open general sessions, so whether it's the breakfast one, whether

    it's the lunch one, et cetera, and then, I mean, there is some nice

    pieces around, say, like, the 10:00 a.m., 11:30, you will get a sense

    of the community college priorities, which will help contextualize

    the pieces that Joseph is going to cover with you in terms of Pima.

         So kind of keep that in mind.  Then when you roll into the

    afternoon on Monday, what you're going to see is there is these





    breakout different sessions, and that's when, you know, you can

    decide, does that work for you?  Or do you want to go do something on

    your own?  You may have some flexibility there, depending on how that

    plays out.  This is based on what we know right now.  This can change

    when we get on the ground.  So just being mindful of that.

         Then when we roll into Tuesday, Arizona is going to have its own

    special unique set of events.  I think that involves breakfast,

    right?

         >> LIBBY HOWELL:  Yes.

         >> DR. LEE LAMBERT:  So we will get you the details around that.

    Then that's going to roll into I think all the way up till noon and

    may involve lunch, as well.  We will confirm that.

         Now we get into the visits.  Now, the visits are the primary.

    All this other stuff are secondary.  So if we end up, for example, on

    Monday, that's the only time we can go in and see Representative

    Ciscomani, then we are going on Monday morning whether they've got

    something going on here or not, because the whole reason for us to be

    there is to meet with the members, not for the conference.  So just a

    little fluidity, willingness just to be agile and adaptive based on

    the schedule.

         But we will keep you all informed.  Andrea is joining us, as

    well.  We will keep you informed.

         What we like to do is for all of us at the general sessions to

    sit together.  We all sit together, and so that way something comes

    up, we can talk about it and so forth.  We will have a dinner one





    night together.  Right now we are setting that for Sunday.

         Normally we do it on Monday night, but we have to do it Sunday

    because I got a phone call, I may have to return to Tucson early.

    They are saying that they really need me to come back to Tucson early

    but they won't tell me why at this point (smiling).

         So I thought, okay, we better just set it for Sunday, because at

    that dinner meeting, we go over with Tracy some of the particulars

    about what we may focus on.  That's why that dinner -- then after

    that dinner meeting, any other dinner meetings, you're on your own if

    you choose to do that.  I believe they also have a dinner meeting

    set, and we are paying for it.  Kind of keep that in mind as far as

    participating in that.

         But again, we will have a better idea of the schedule once we get

    on the ground.  This kind of gives you a flavor for it.  I don't know

    if that answers your question.

         >> DR. WADE McLEAN:  Part of it.  Do we attend the new trustee

    academy on Sunday?

         >> DR. LEE LAMBERT:  Andrea, who is set up for preconference?

         So the three of you who are new.  You're all scheduled for a

    preconference.  Now, the question, are they all in the same one?

         >> Yes.

         >> DR. LEE LAMBERT:  Which one is it?  Starting at 10:00, new

    trustee academy.  Okay.

         >> MS. THERESA RIEL:  I don't know if you know this, Chancellor,

    but Juan Ciscomani was one of my students for two or three semesters





    in the early '90s.  So I'm going to e-mail his office and just remind

    him...(laughter).

         >> LIBBY HOWELL:  One thing I will tell you that is new this

    year, so there is a group of the other community colleges that are

    coming as a group.  We are still going to make our appointments

    individually.  Frankly, because we don't want Pima's voice to be lost

    in the crowd.

         But as much as we can, we will try to participate in those group

    activities, as long as it doesn't conflict with the appointments that

    we have with our members.

         >> JOSEPH MAIS:  I think the big takeaway here with the

    schedules, this is sort of a rough draft and there is still stuff

    being put in place, and as we have heard from Libby and the

    chancellor, we should all be prepared to be surprised at some point

    during the week.  (Laughter.)

         If we go to the next section, we can see that this is the

    document that the association provides to members.  It's sort of the

    national priorities of the association, the shared priorities of all

    the community college trustees, and it also is in alignment with the

    American Association of Community Colleges.

         These are sort of their key areas that align with much of what we

    do here.  So this is something that we will make copies of and

    provide to congressional offices, and it's stuff that will be sort

    of, the stuff we are generally talking about, but we don't have to go

    through this sheet with members of congress.  They will receive it





    and they will be hearing it.  They have heard it all many times.

    They will be provided with that document.

         The next one, which is the one that says who we are sort of at

    the top, Pima Community College, who we are, and this is after the

    tab PCC facts.  This is another documents that we will leave behind

    in congressional offices to members and their staff.

         A lot of what this document is, it's sort of like ACCT priorities

    as they apply to our school.  So it's some of the data around

    important facts specific to Pima related to things that ACCT cares

    about.

         The next document, PCC federal priorities, this one is sort of

    other things that are very important to Pima that may not be embraced

    by the whole association, but they are things that are important to

    our school, and we want to make sure that our delegation knows they

    are priorities for Pima and we are bringing them to their attention.

         This will also be a document that we will leave behind in

    congressional offices.

         >> LIBBY HOWELL:  If I could add, note that we have indicated the

    maximum Pell Grant award that students at Pima have received, along

    with what the average award was.  Because Pell is such a topic of

    conversation now, you might be asked that question.  So it's listed

    here for your benefit.

         >> JOSEPH MAIS:  And Pell is always sort of a very important

    thing.  It's an important federal fund, and it's important for us to

    make sure that we show how much it does for students' need-based aid.





    So the next document is --

         >> MS. THERESA RIEL:  Sorry, Joseph.  I should know this, but

    Pell Grants are based on the students' need, correct?  So the needier

    they are, the higher the dollar amount that they would be awarded?

         >> JOSEPH MAIS:  That's right.  So Pell Grants, there is a sort

    of -- it's based on family income, based on family size, stuff like

    that.  It sort of -- there is a certain income level where you become

    partially eligible, and that eligibility rate goes up until your

    income is such that you are fully eligible for the full Pell, for

    everybody else.

         >> LIBBY HOWELL:  You'll note that one of our priorities besides

    expanding Pell is to get, to end the taxation of Pell Grants so that

    they don't have to pay income tax on that.

         We talk about it a little here and we talk about it a lot in the

    talking points document, because that then gives them full access to

    the financial assistance that they have received.

         >> JOSEPH MAIS:  That becomes a bigger complexity for community

    colleges, because at a larger school where you can have a fungibility

    of where, if you're going to university and your bill is $20,000 for

    everything that is cost of attendance, you can sort of shift the

    place where you spent your Pell into places, you know, where it won't

    necessarily be taxable.  But for schools like the community college,

    that becomes a taxability issue.

         >> DR. LEE LAMBERT:  Let me just add on top of that.  One of the

    things you might hear is this whole notion of Promise Program.  The





    Promise Program is essentially another way to say it's free tuition,

    and in the State of Arizona, we do offer a college Promise Program.

         However, it's a Last Dollar Program, meaning you have to use your

    Pell first, and then you get access to that Last Dollar Program.  The

    challenge for community colleges is Pell usually covers your tuition

    with a little extra left over so our students don't get access to the

    college Promise Program in the State of Arizona.

         That's actually benefiting the university students, not community

    college students.  Just want you to know that.

         One thing, our nuance to that is we are trying to argue it should

    be a First Dollar Program, not a Last Dollar Program, because if it's

    First Dollar, then it goes back to what Joseph is saying, because now

    you can use Pell after you use that.

         Understand that nuance being made here, this dialogue when we are

    in Washington.

         >> JOSEPH MAIS:  Through this document there is lots of

    information.  I would point just to the last page of that section.

    At the very bottom, there is just a paragraph there that is an

    important thing that we want our delegation to know that not just

    that we are doing -- we are a community college, it's educating,

    workforce, it's important, but also that Pima Community College is a

    reference for policymakers as an expert.  So that's a point I think

    we want to drive home as well.

         In the next section I think Libby mentioned, this is the one, if

    you're pressed for time and you only have time to review one section





    of this binder, this is the one you should spend your time on, and

    it's the one that says, the tab says talking points.  At the top of

    it, it says info and talking points for board members.  This is an

    internal document, so this is not something we will distribute to

    congress, but this is information for you that will sort of help you,

    you know, maybe expand on some of the things we will be discussing

    here so that you can contextualize it for us here at Pima and how

    it's working.

         So some of the things we have been already talking about, about

    the taxation of Pell is in here and other pieces of legislation that

    are moving.

         I will point you also to the last page of this document.  We

    found out a couple of days ago from Tracy that Virginia Foxx, who is

    the new chair of the House Education Committee, is introducing this

    Pell Act Bill, which is awarding money for short -- sort of for not

    -- I'm struggling --

         >> DR. LEE LAMBERT:  So one of the pieces that community colleges

    have been allocating for is being able to use Pell money for

    short-term programs.  Primarily those programs are career tech ed

    type programs that lead to job placements, and so the majority party

    now has a different view on it than the majority party last session's

    view on it.

         So there will be certain nuances about it that -- but we, as

    community colleges and Pima specifically, we have been a proponent

    for short-term Pell.  But the way this new bill is laid out, there





    are some issues that we have about the way it's structured.  It will

    be different than how the senate's version will look.  Just let you

    know that conceptually we liked the idea, but when you get into the

    details of it we don't like so much some of the verbiage that's in

    there.

         >> JOSEPH MAIS:  From just a quick policy sweep, right now Pell

    is not eligible for those kinds of programs, and it really should be,

    and that's a really important part of the workforce training that we

    are providing for people who need, employers who need people quickly.

    They are telling us they want these people trained in these ways.

         Right now we can't use those Pell dollars to train people for

    real jobs that are on the ground right in front of us.  So that is

    one of the weaknesses here.

         I will just say that one of the problems we have with this bill

    is that there is a lot tied to this availability of funds.  There are

    several things that we are struggling with, but one of the big things

    is tied to it is a very onerous reporting requirement, some of which

    we wouldn't even be able to do about, you know, placement and what

    does placement mean and...

         >> LIBBY HOWELL:  Job --

         >> JOSEPH MAIS:  Income.

         >> LIBBY HOWELL:  Where they have gone to work afterwards.

    That's really a tough nut for us to crack.  It's something we are

    already trying to do just so we have that kind of data, and that's

    very hard to get that information.





         The other thing you will see that it references...

         >> DR. WADE McLEAN:  What is their motivation behind this

    modification?

         >> JOSEPH MAIS:  I would say that they probably have been hearing

    for many years that community colleges are interested in this and

    others are interested in these kinds of eligibility for Pell.  You

    know, I can't speak for the authors, but I would say that they're

    putting in things that say how can we measure that it is being -- in

    this document where they describe the bill, they say ways to measure

    that it's actually effective, so that's the motivation they are

    claiming, is that they are looking for measures of efficacy, that we

    are going to dedicate new funds.  We want to see that those funds are

    having outcomes.

         >> LIBBY HOWELL:  Representative Foxx, who is the chair of this

    committee, is all about accountability.  That is her mantra.

         >> DR. WADE McLEAN:  But that's hard to argue against.  So why

    not the short term, is what I'm asking.

         >> DR. LEE LAMBERT:  Okay.  So there are two facets.  I will just

    use these two facets.  There is the for-profits, career training

    programs, and so that has been a sticking point for the public sector

    versus the private sector.

         So in the past, that has become a barrier to passing this

    legislation, because the majority party in the White House has a

    different view than the majority party in the House.

         So then the House, now that it's constructed differently, are





    placing more of these accountability measures on all of us as a way

    to probably demonstrate that this isn't just -- it's like we are

    going to also require the private sector folks to step up.  That's

    just me reading between the lines.  I could be wrong.

         Then I think another piece is the universities are not so happy

    about this.  Because university, their business model isn't based on

    CTE framework.  So not based on the shorter-term certificates.  So

    they are concerned about this legislation, as well.  Not just about

    the details of the one that we have here in front of you but in the

    total concept to begin with.  So that's where the pushback comes from

    is from the university sector primarily.

         >> LIBBY HOWELL:  You'll hear the term "clock hours" a lot, and

    many community colleges are moving from a clock hour, in other words,

    how many hours a student is in the seat, to credit hours because they

    had different reporting structures, and the clock hour reporting

    structure was very onerous.  At least that's what our workforce folks

    tell us.

         So it's much easier, instead of having two systems for tracking

    those and reporting on those, it's easier to just have them all be

    credit hours.  That's one reason, and there is a lot of emphasis on

    clock hour in much of the legislation, so we want to make sure that

    credit hours gets equal accessibility.

         >> DR. LEE LAMBERT:  Let me use a program to illustrate this for

    a moment.  This program also highlights why we have an issue with

    this law as it currently is constructed.





         Our truck driving program, commercial driver's license, CDL, you

    will hear it referred to as CDL, it's a little longer term than what

    this bill is contemplating, so arguably under this bill it's not

    eligible.

         However, it's also not eligible under the current Pell structure

    because it's not a full-time program as well, because you come in, in

    like eight or nine weeks, you're qualified for your CDL, you pass

    your CDL, now you can go drive for Walmart or any one of those, and

    then depending on who you go drive for, you are already making a

    family sustainable wage.

         Those students typically have to borrow to get into the program,

    or hopefully they can get an employer sponsor to allow them in the

    program, so why we have been pushing for short-term Pell is let's pay

    for students to go through that as opposed to putting up a barrier

    where they have to go borrow in order to get into a program that can

    get them into a livable wage fairly quickly, but this law now doesn't

    help with that.

         So that's a classic example of how we have to help congress

    understand those nuances, and hopefully they will recalibrate based

    on it.

         >> DR. WADE McLEAN:  I would think that's an excellent example to

    use, because, if anything, they should be pro business and want to

    move the economy along.

         >> DR. LEE LAMBERT:  Yes.

         >> DR. WADE McLEAN:  We need truck drivers to do that.  I would





    say that's a great example.

         >> DR. LEE LAMBERT:  Just as an aside, a truck driver in I think

    over half of the states in the country is the single largest employer

    of males.  So the impact is significant.

         >> JOSEPH MAIS:  Okay.  So the other three tabs in here are just

    stuff for your information.  We have member bios, so the members of

    congress from the Arizona delegation we are meeting with, it tells

    you a little bit about them, some facts that help, I think, as --

         >> LIBBY HOWELL:  If I can mention, you'll notice that we have

    Congressman Stanton listed.  He is not a Pima County member of

    congress, but he's the former mayor of Phoenix.  He knows Pima and

    loves us.  We always like to visit him and reinforce what we are

    doing, because he's very interested in the college's success.

         >> JOSEPH MAIS:  As the chair mentioned earlier, Juan Ciscomani,

    newest member of our delegation, is a graduate of Pima Community

    College, attendee.

         The last two things here are just daily reporting for the fall

    and spring semesters, so that's just to give you more data, more

    information.

         Let's see.  Once again, I just had a couple of takeaways.  If you

    want to review anything, the talking points document is the best one

    to spend some time on.  That's sort of the big things, the big

    takeaways.  I think that will help you through.

         As Libby mentioned at the top, Tracy Tucker will be joining us,

    help us with our visits, help us get around, and modify our plans as





    needed.  She will be there to put out the fires that we have.

         She is very well-respected in D.C.  Finally, I just wanted to

    emphasize once again the importance of our students' voices in these

    meetings, the offices.  The students have a huge impact on elected

    officials and their staff, and hearing the on-the-ground impact that

    their resources are doing and that the school is doing here at Pima

    are just really valuable for members of congress.  So making sure

    when we have our visits we give the students the time to share their

    time, and their experience there is really valuable.

         >> DR. WADE McLEAN:  It would be a big help for me if you would

    text me as soon as you make an appointment so that we don't have to

    go to a huddle to find out we changed our schedule.  So if you don't

    have my number, I would be happy to give it to you.

         >> DR. LEE LAMBERT:  Andrea will make sure we have everybody's

    numbers.  That way we can text each other if we need to.

         >> DR. WADE McLEAN:  That would be very helpful.  The second is

    what do we look like?  Do we all go to the same appointment?  Are we

    doing a little quail run down the hallway and going into doors?

         >> LIBBY HOWELL:  Most of the time it will be a little quail run,

    but in a few instances they are small offices, and we have 11 folks,

    12 if you count Tracy, we have 12 people in our entourage, so we may

    have to divide and conquer.

         Or it could just simply be because two of the members could only

    see us at exactly the same time.  Then we have to split up.

         I should mention, I probably don't need to say it to you folks,





    but we felt we needed to say it to the students, when we do those

    visits to congress, it is appropriate to be dressed professionally to

    make a good impression.

         >> DR. WADE McLEAN:  What's that look like?

         >> LIBBY HOWELL:  Neckties for guys.

         >> DR. LEE LAMBERT:  But it doesn't have to be color-coordinated.

    (Laughter.)

         >> DR. WADE McLEAN:  That's not business casual.

         >> JOSEPH MAIS:  In D.C. it might be.

         >> DR. LEE LAMBERT:  I'm of the mind, dress the way you feel

    best.  Because it's going to be not about the way you dress.  It's

    about the message that we are communicating.  I think for us not to

    lose sight of that.

         The other thing, when we walk in the room, usually what happens

    is, I will use a sports analogy, if that's okay, I will usually

    quarterback the meeting, meaning I will call on one of you, all of

    you to say a few words.  I will say, Theresa, just share from your

    perspective your thoughts on Pell Grants.  So you'll do like a

    30-second, one-minute thing.  Then we will have the student talk

    about their experience.

         We will probably assign each of you an area, and so how we have

    determined that in the past is each board member will say this is an

    area of interest that I have, that I really want to talk about.  So

    we try to integrate that into the messaging that we want to do.

         Then I will just make sure that I, you know, say to the





    congressperson or the senator that, I will try to find out how much

    time we have, because that affects how many of us can speak and how

    quickly we have to speak, and then I will just call on each of you,

    based on what we kind of have a sense of.

         And then as they have said we may have to split up, because some

    meetings will conflict with each other.  Maybe there is time from a

    schedule standpoint, but from a geography standpoint there is no way

    for you to get from one part to the other part in that 30 minutes

    because we have to go through the whole security check lines,

    et cetera.

         We will split up.  So I may not always be in every meeting.  If I

    take one group, then Joseph will take another group.  If I have to

    return back here, then Joseph will take one group and Tracy will take

    another group.

         You never have to feel like you're on your own.  We will make

    sure that someone is there to help guide the process.  But please,

    when you look at the materials, let us know if there is a particular

    topical area you have a special interest in, that way we can help

    make sure that we facilitate that as part of the conversation.  If

    you're just completely open, that's fine too.

         Usually Representative Grijalva is the most generous in time.

    Just so you know that.  We can go into sometimes with Senator Sinema

    if she's there.  Sometimes it will rush us into a room, take a bunch

    of pictures, and then rush us out of the room.  It can ebb and flow.

    Then every now and then, and we have done this with Senator McSally,





    where she came to one of our dinner meetings, and that was our

    meeting with her.

         So it ebbs and flows, depending on the situation.  So your

    flexibility, your willingness to be agile, will help a lot.  But if

    it conflicts with something you have scheduled out there, then just

    let us know.  Again, we're adaptable.

         >> JOSEPH MAIS:  One thing to add to that is we do have a couple

    places we do these Hill receptions.  That can be a really good

    opportunity, because in the office we are sort of time -- it's very

    time-sensitive, and we have to get through what we want to share, you

    know, pretty succinctly.

         When they do these little receptions, if we get a chance to do

    those, and members from our delegation come, or their staff, it's an

    opportunity to sort of have a conversation and get some of the stuff

    you might not be able to get out quickly in that conversation.

         >> DR. LEE LAMBERT:  That's why Andrea is with us.  She will keep

    us all in line.

         >> LIBBY HOWELL:  Any questions?  So I want to conclude by

    telling you a fun story.  I think it was four years ago when I went,

    and we had two students that year.  We are in the House office

    building walking down the hall, and there is this one door quite a

    bit fancier than the other doors and it has pillars to the side and

    an eagle statue outside.  They said, oh, my goodness, whose office is

    that?

         Well, it was Nancy Pelosi's, and I'll be darned, they're standing





    there taking pictures when she comes out of the office and says, who

    are these people?  So we told her, and she stopped and posed and let

    them take pictures with her.

         Then we had a private tour, behind-the-scenes tour of the

    Capitol.  When we went into the senate, I think it was, they were

    debating some bill about sanctioning, I'm not sure if it was Iraq or

    Iran, but one of the Middle East countries, about sanctioning it.

         We got to watch that.  It's history being made.  It was really

    exciting.  Yeah, it was cool.

         >> DR. LEE LAMBERT:  Madam Chair, if we can transition to the

    next topic, the last topic, and this is about the board's

    professional development.

         We thought we'd just have a conversation so you know what the

    landscape looks like for the year.  This is many of the pieces that

    we know about.  There may be something that we don't.  Really part of

    the conversation is how do you want to manage all of this?

         Do you want to make some decisions that everybody should go to

    every one of these?  Or should be a subset?  We can certainly help

    provide perspective on that.

         So, for example, I would always suggest that we go to the ACCT

    events, because that's your trade association, like we are going next

    week, and they do two big meetings a year.

         Then everything else I would suggest is more think as optional.

    It's maybe good to go, but you don't have to go unless there is a

    particular area of focus.  So like this year, Board Chair, that there





    is a GLI that's specific to the CEO and chair relationship.  So going

    to that might be beneficial for the college and for us.

         Then I think because we are going to be going into the Higher

    Learning Commission process here, that it probably doesn't hurt,

    especially for new board members, to just go and have at least one

    experience with the conference.  You don't necessarily have to be

    there for the whole conference, but just to go for a day or two, it's

    not a bad idea, get a feel for what this whole accreditation thing is

    all about.

         Now, Saturday typically at the HLC event is a president's track

    and that's where trustees will join the CEO on that.  It's not

    earth-shattering if you miss it.  If you make the next day, a lot of

    things get repeated.  We get kind of the thumbnail on Saturday.  The

    conference hits you with the bigger pieces.

         So what helps us to know is what you're interested in.  Then you

    do have a budget that's allocated for board travel.  We try to keep

    you within that budget.  If everybody wanted to go to everything,

    that could put pressure on the budget, so just let us know.

         >> DR. WADE McLEAN:  So Andrea will be sending us these things

    along the way?

         >> DR. LEE LAMBERT:  Yes.

         >> DR. WADE McLEAN:  For me, it would be very helpful to have

    input from you as to what would benefit the college on paper with HLC

    so we can check the boxes that need to be checked.  You know, as far

    as I'm concerned, if I need to go help the college, I will go.  If it





    doesn't help the college, I don't need to go.

         >> DR. LEE LAMBERT:  That's why I come back to the ACCT pieces

    are like most definitely go to that, and then this year I would just

    go to the HLC, because this is your first time for the three of you,

    to have been exposed to that in a board role.

         Then after that, I think there is a lot of flexibility from

    there, other than the GLI with the chair and CEO relationship.

    Probably doesn't hurt, Wade, that you attend as the vice-chair,

    because if something were to happen to Theresa, then it's good that

    you're ready to step in.  If you want to.  I mean, it's not critical

    that you go, but it doesn't hurt, either.  There you go.

         >> MS. THERESA RIEL:  There is a lot that has been presented as

    far as all of these trips.  Up to this point I have said yes, because

    I assumed that I wouldn't have been asked to go if it wasn't

    important for the college.

         But will you like put an asterisk on things that if you're

    interested but we don't really -- I don't personally want to waste

    any money traveling or time if it isn't something that we don't think

    would really benefit us in our professional growth to go to.

         >> DR. LEE LAMBERT:  Sure.  No, and I think we will factor that

    into the equation, and if ever you're in doubt, just ask us.

         Arguably, right, not everybody, after you do this one time around

    on the legislative piece, you may not want to go again.  I think

    that's okay.  If you decide, well, I have done the D.C. thing, I

    don't need to go always.





         But I think as long as we have at least one of you going, right?

    But if no one wants to go, then I think that probably doesn't send

    the right kind of message either.  But I will discuss that with you,

    because being the chair role, then you help to kind of work the flow

    with your other colleagues.

         And then there are some things that aren't on here.  We have

    asked you, because you're in the chair role, to join us at the

    Bellwether, because that does help the college because I think it

    puts on a positive face from the board to in the case chancellor, are

    supportive of the programs that are up for this prestigious

    recognition.  That's why we invite -- now, is it absolutely that you

    need to go?  No.  But does it help with our pitch?  Absolutely.

         More from a commitment level, not so much from what you might

    say.  We may only give you, say, a one-minute part in all of that,

    but the fact that you're there communicates a message to the group as

    well.

         Now there is logistical issues.  Do you want to talk about it or

    do you want me to talk about the logistical issues about board

    travel?

         So you have a copy of the -- I will just repeat it, because I

    know the audience can't hear it.  Andrea is saying you have all

    received a copy of the board policy.  Helps you understand what you

    can and can't be reimbursed for.

         Most things you can be reimbursed for as long as you stay within

    the per diem limit.  If you decide to go have a nice, fancy dinner,





    and for that region the state only covers $50 but you spent 100, then

    you just have to pay that difference.  If you're bringing along a

    spouse, a partner, then typically, well, they would have to cover

    their own expense.

         Now, there are some limits on parking, so in Arizona, for

    example, here in Tucson, we are only going to cover $5 of your

    parking at the airport.  Some of the lots are a little more expensive

    to that.

         Dave, we need to revisit -- is he still here?  He's gone.  I

    think we need to revisit some of that because of inflation and so

    forth.  Right now that's how it's kind of set, but that kind of gives

    you the parameters.

         Now, when we go to special dinners, like when we all travel

    together, I'm with you, I will take us all out one night to dinner,

    and then I will cover that dinner except for the drinks.  Alcohol is

    on your own, but I will cover that piece of it.

         We will repeat these kinds of things when we are on the road

    together.  Then depending on the nature of the dinner, you can bring

    your spouse, your partner, except for when we say, well, this is a

    working dinner, so the D.C. dinner is a working dinner, so that's

    where we would not invite your partner or your spouse to that dinner.

         Then there is other considerations, and I will use D.C. as

    another example.  For us to bring more than a certain number of

    individuals, it elevates it to a whole new level of bureaucracy that

    we have to go through with the restaurant.  So sometimes we are like,





    okay, we don't want to go through that, and so we keep the number

    below the bureaucratic levels with the restaurant.  That would limit,

    you know, bringing a guest.

         But I will always have Andrea let you know those parameters.  So

    you don't have to remember any of what I just said.  But she will let

    you know.

         >> MS. THERESA RIEL:  This is a question about our travel cards.

    I had one before when I was an employee, but I don't ever remember

    using it, and I don't ever remember like paying attention to the

    bills.

         Are we responsible -- I know we are responsible for what we spend

    on the card, but is it one of our monthly things that we are going to

    have to make sure that all of our items match to what we purchased?

         >> (Off mic.)

         >> DR. LEE LAMBERT:  It's the smaller things that are hard to

    keep track of, like if you pay for parking, take a taxicab, or Uber.

    Those are the ones, those little pieces that are hard for us to

    track, but everything else we are able to track for you.  As Andrea

    said, she will just take care of it for you.

         When you go and check into the hotel, we will get that hotel bill

    so you don't have to worry about that.  We will take care of that on

    your expense account, as long as you use the college card.

         If you use a private card, then we would need you to make sure

    you bring in the receipts and everything and we can cross-reference

    it back to your private card.





         But generally, if you use the college's card, then I would not

    worry about it.  Because we use a per diem system, then we are not

    getting into how much did you spend for breakfast, how much did you

    spend for lunch, for dinner?  Because it's just per diem.

         Does that cover what you'd like to say, Andrea?  Okay.  Madam

    Chair, we are done with this piece unless you have more questions.

         >> MS. THERESA RIEL:  Okay.  Any other comments?  This meeting is

    adjourned.

         >> DR. LEE LAMBERT:  Thank you.

         (Adjournment.)





                         *********************************************

                DISCLAIMER: THIS CART FILE WAS PRODUCED FOR COMMUNICATION

    ACCESS AS AN ADA ACCOMMODATION AND MAY NOT BE 100% VERBATIM. THIS IS

    A DRAFT FILE AND HAS NOT BEEN PROOFREAD. IT IS SCAN-EDITED ONLY, AS

    PER CART INDUSTRY STANDARDS, AND MAY CONTAIN SOME PHONETICALLY

    REPRESENTED WORDS, INCORRECT SPELLINGS, TRANSMISSION ERRORS, AND

    STENOTYPE SYMBOLS OR NONSENSICAL WORDS. THIS IS NOT A LEGAL DOCUMENT

    AND MAY CONTAIN COPYRIGHTED, PRIVILEGED OR CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION.

             THIS FILE SHALL NOT BE DISCLOSED IN ANY FORM (WRITTEN OR

    ELECTRONIC) AS A VERBATIM TRANSCRIPT OR POSTED TO ANY WEBSITE OR

    PUBLIC FORUM OR SHARED WITHOUT THE EXPRESS WRITTEN CONSENT OF THE

    HIRING PARTY AND/OR THE CART PROVIDER. THIS IS NOT AN OFFICIAL

    TRANSCRIPT AND SHOULD NOT BE RELIED UPON FOR PURPOSES OF VERBATIM

    CITATION.

                     *********************************************