*********************************************

                DISCLAIMER: THIS CART FILE WAS PRODUCED FOR COMMUNICATION

    ACCESS AS AN ADA ACCOMMODATION AND MAY NOT BE 100% VERBATIM. THIS IS

    A DRAFT FILE AND HAS NOT BEEN PROOFREAD. IT IS SCAN-EDITED ONLY, AS

    PER CART INDUSTRY STANDARDS, AND MAY CONTAIN SOME PHONETICALLY

    REPRESENTED WORDS, INCORRECT SPELLINGS, TRANSMISSION ERRORS, AND

    STENOTYPE SYMBOLS OR NONSENSICAL WORDS. THIS IS NOT A LEGAL DOCUMENT

    AND MAY CONTAIN COPYRIGHTED, PRIVILEGED OR CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION.

             THIS FILE SHALL NOT BE DISCLOSED IN ANY FORM (WRITTEN OR

    ELECTRONIC) AS A VERBATIM TRANSCRIPT OR POSTED TO ANY WEBSITE OR

    PUBLIC FORUM OR SHARED WITHOUT THE EXPRESS WRITTEN CONSENT OF THE

    HIRING PARTY AND/OR THE CART PROVIDER. THIS IS NOT AN OFFICIAL

    TRANSCRIPT AND SHOULD NOT BE RELIED UPON FOR PURPOSES OF VERBATIM

    CITATION.

                     *********************************************





         January 30, 2023 Special Board Meeting, Morning Session...



         >> MS. THERESA RIEL:  I'm calling this special meeting, board

    orientation, to order.  Our first presentation is by Jeff Silvyn,

    general counsel, on board governance.

         >> MR. JEFF SILVYN:  Good morning.  So we're actually covering a

    pretty wide group of topics, and I just put them under the general

    heading of board governance because that sort of fits all of it.

         So I do have sort of a summary PowerPoint.  There are reference

    materials in the binders, which you can look at as we go through it

    or take notes if that's helpful, or just save them for later as

    reference materials.  If there are other topics you'd like more

    information on, we can plan a subsequent session.  We can also get

    you more materials.  You can also build the binder as a reference

    tool during the orientation process.

         So I was going to cover a number of topics related to board

    governance.  If, at any time, you have a question, stop me.  The

    whole idea is to help you all get more familiar with kind of how

    things work.  It's a lot of information today, so whatever we can do

    to make it easier to digest, please let us know.

         One thing I thought I would just mention really quickly, for

    whatever it's worth, so I have represented boards in different

    capacities, both as the outside lawyer and a couple times now as

    being a lawyer on the regular staff of the organization.  So I have

    that experience.





         The other thing is I have served on some boards and been through

    a lot of board training as part of that process and then have gone

    through training to train boards.  So I have done some of that.

         Some of the topics we are going to talk about or ideas I'm going

    to share with you are not specific to the Pima College Governing

    Board.  They are just kind of generally accepted standards of board

    governance.  If you go to other programs, you likely will hear them.

    They're really the same standards that apply, whether it's a public

    body like this or to a nonprofit or even a for-profit corporation.

         That's really the first topic we are going to talk about is

    fiduciary duty.  So board members are generally considered

    fiduciaries.  In some states that's a matter of actually statutory

    law, but in all states it's pretty much part of case law.  So judges

    have decided, based on the legal traditions of our country, that

    board members are fiduciaries.

         Well, what does that mean?  A fiduciary is someone who acts on

    behalf of another without regard to their own interest.  So board

    members are charged to make decisions in the best interests of

    another.

         In this case, one thing to think about, it's not just for others

    like the current people at Pima -- students, employees, community

    members -- it's really thinking about how to protect the institution

    so that it can provide the same services in the future.  So not only

    thinking about the best interests of the institution and those it

    serves today but those it's going to serve tomorrow.





         If you were to look at articles or cases about the elements of

    fiduciary duty, there are basically three elements.  I put an article

    in your materials from AGB.  It's about 15, 16 pages long.  So I

    don't expect you to look at it today.  The three main topics it

    covers are these.  These are really consistently how the fiduciary

    duty is broken down.

         There is the duty of loyalty.  And that's to pursue the best

    interests of the college rather than personal or other

    considerations.  In other words, you owe your allegiance to the good

    of the institution.

         You'll see how these tie together.  So, for example, later we

    will talk about conflict of interest.  That's directly related to

    duty of loyalty.  I can't consider my own personal gain or family

    member interests.  I consider the institution.

         Duty of care.  That's using reasonable due diligence, care, and

    skill to make decisions in the best interests of the college.  In

    other words, it means trying to make sure you have done your homework

    before making a decision.  It does not mean you have to be an expert

    in everything.  That's not what's expected.

         So it's reasonable care.  There is mindfulness to the fact that

    you're all essentially community members who have volunteered your

    time.  That's why you have full-time staff and we have outside

    consultants so you can get the benefit of expertise, ask those

    critical questions, and then make an informed decision.  As long as

    you are doing all of that, you will generally satisfy the duty of





    care.

         The duty of obedience is meaning that decisions that the board

    makes are supposed to be in furtherance of the college's mission and

    that the board is acting and the institution are acting in compliance

    with whatever the applicable standards are.  An institution like

    Pima, we have a lot of those.  There's federal law, there's state

    law, there's accreditation standards.  There is a lot of standards we

    are expected to follow.  As elected officials, there are also

    specific standards that apply to public offices.  We will talk about

    that a little bit more in detail later.

         Just a couple of things I thought I would mention to kind of

    illustrate these ideas.  So again, the overarching theme is what's in

    the best interests of the organization.  So Pima, of course, that

    means we have students, we have employees, we have community members.

    And community members also of course expands a lot of different

    interests.  There is businesses, there's healthcare, there's people

    who are just passionate about a particular aspect at Pima.  They are

    all part of that community.

         The real challenge for the board and really the administration

    also is how do you balance all of those to try and make sure you are

    making a decision that's in the best interests of all.  I guess one

    thing I'd share something I have noticed is different groups will

    advocate a particular perspective to the board, and sometimes it's

    not always -- what they are advocating may not always be in the best

    interest of the organization.  It's in the interest of a particular





    group, and sometimes there is alignment and sometimes they are not

    totally aligned.

         So a couple of examples I thought I would mention about that.

    For example, there was a Faculty Senate session where they were

    talking about workplace conditions and how important Faculty Senate

    workplace conditions are to the student experience.  That is

    certainly true.  If the faculty don't have good working conditions,

    it certainly can have a negative influence on student experience.

         Of course we could say, well, what about the reverse, right?

    What good is for students presumably is also in the best interests of

    the organization?  But why I mention that is those two don't always

    exactly align or not everything that seems to be in the best

    interests of a certain group of employees or students is actually in

    the best interests of the collective.

         So specifically, for example, I started in Pima in 2013, and back

    then we didn't have consistent start times for classes.  So that

    meant classes started at lots of different times during the morning,

    right.  One class starts at 8:00, another one starts at 8:15.  There

    was a lot of variation in classes.

         That happened in large part because faculty and the

    administration related to that allowed a lot of autonomy about

    setting schedules.  So people set schedules that worked for them.

    Well, you think about that -- that was great for the employees.  Not

    so good for students.  Because if you think about if you are a

    student and I don't have consistent start times, it's hard to make





    sure I can build a schedule where I can actually get from one class

    to another when I need to.  So something that seems like it was in

    the best interests of employees wasn't really in the best interests

    of students.

         Another example would be we have many students who work part

    time, have family commitments, et cetera.  Maybe they have trouble

    making some of the support hours during the week and they really

    spend most of the weekends doing their classwork.  Well, from that

    perspective, having Pima faculty and tutors and support staff

    available all through the weekend when it's convenient for the

    students would be in the best interests of the students.  That may be

    sort of true, but it doesn't necessarily align very well with the

    real-life situation of most of our employees and faculty.

         So even though a particular idea might be advocated from a

    particular perspective and the interest is important, like how do we

    get student support at the times they need, or how do we set up

    schedules and other working conditions that are conducive to worklife

    balance for employees?  Particular positions are not necessarily in

    the best interests of everyone.  So those often end up in conflict.

         And then we have that issue of, okay, how do we balance all of

    that to make sure that we are coming up with this solution that will

    work for the broadest number of people possible?

         That's kind of related to this concept of fiduciary duty.

    Another aspect I wanted to mention with respect to the duty of

    obedience that can be challenging at times is sometimes the rules





    that apply may not align with your personal views or what you think

    is right under the circumstances.  Then there is a choice to be made.

    So I will give you an example of that.

         That happens to lawyers.  There are certain rules of conduct we

    are supposed to operate under, and sometimes they don't align with

    your personal values.  That happened to me in a situation where I

    knew information about a client that for a variety of reasons seemed

    like it would be a good idea to reveal, but under the rules I clearly

    could not do that, even though it kind of seemed like the ethically

    correct thing to do was to reveal the information.

         I talked to someone who was in Arizona, sort of a prominent

    authority on ethics rules.  He said, that's easy.  You can't say

    anything.  Those rules, absolutely no.

         So I had a choice to make.  There's my thought of what I thought

    was ethically right, and there's what was the right rules under the

    profession I chose, professional rules.  So you may find yourself in

    that same situation where a rule of whether it's the bylaws or

    accreditation standard or some other rule may not seem to align with

    what you think is the right thing to do, but if you follow the

    standards expected of board members as fiduciaries, that's the

    choice.

         So just something to keep in mind.  It may not happen to you, but

    you may find yourself in that situation.

         The last thing I wanted to mention, it's just sort of

    encapsulating this idea, I think about board members in this way, and





    maybe it's helpful for you, really the ultimately the board is the

    guardian of mission.  How do we make decisions at Pima that best

    further the mission of the college?  Just from a staff perspective,

    let me share why that's really helpful.

         When you work at Pima every day, you get caught up in day-to-day

    things.  There is always the urgent thing that has to be dealt with

    at the moment.  That makes it hard for people, employees at Pima, to

    often stay totally focused on mission and that bigger picture,

    because there is always demands on you every day.  It's really

    helpful having a board meeting once a month where the board can help

    us all be grounded again, and okay, let's focus on the mission and

    how do these decisions support the mission.

         So at least from the staff and I guess student side, the board is

    in a really unique and important position to help on a regular basis,

    asking those questions about, well, how does this advance the

    mission?  How will we know it's advancing the mission?  That's really

    helpful.  It's very easy, like I said for those of us in the

    day-to-day, to get involved.

         I'd also say that's part of why there's this division of

    responsibilities that the board is responsible for the big picture,

    those high-level things, and staff is responsible for the day-to-day,

    because whenever there are problems or issues, it's kind of a natural

    tendency you want to solve them.  But when you solve them, then it's

    easy to get involved in the day-to-day and the weeds as opposed to

    staying focused on big picture, are we advancing the mission, and





    like I said, that's where the board plays that really critical role

    and helps all of us be reminded about that.

         Any questions about all of that?  Am I going too fast?  Okay.

    Okay.

         Powers and duties of community colleges.  So these are not all of

    them, but these are the primary ones.  What this is linked to, and I

    printed these materials, they are in your notebooks, these are the

    two main statutes that lay out the powers and authorities of

    community college governing boards.

         Just a little context, and we can walk through them just a little

    bit, ARS stands for Arizona Revised Statutes, that's what we call the

    body of laws passed by our legislature, Title 15 is the section of

    the ARS that has all the education-related codes, and the 1400 series

    is pretty much community colleges.  So there is kind of a structure

    to the numbering system.

         So just when you see a citation ARS with some number, dash,

    another number, that's what it is.  The first number is the section

    or title, and then the larger-number series afterwards is the

    specific section of the statutory code.

         So in the statutes related to community colleges, 15-1444 and 45

    are the two main laws that lay out the specific responsibilities and

    authorities of community college governing boards.  Both of them have

    some that are mandatory, boards "shall" do certain things.  That's

    mandatory language, a requirement.  They also have sections that talk

    about what boards "may" do.  So it's an authority the board has.  It





    may or may not choose to exercise that authority.

         They are in your materials, so if you want to follow along or I

    could figure out how to open the link if that's easier and put them

    up on the screen, do you have a preference?

         So if you flip, there is tab behind a blue page that says powers

    and duties of community college boards.  Oh, sorry, I guess mine has

    colored tabs and yours don't.  Sorry about that.  So it's under the

    tab that says powers and duties of community college governing

    boards.

         So the first one is 15-1444, general powers and duties of

    district boards.  So you'll see there is a whole list.  The first

    list are things that boards have to do.  So the first one, you have

    to maintain a community college for at least eight months per year.

         Of course what's interesting is it doesn't actually tell you what

    that means.  What does it mean to maintain a community college for

    eight months per year?  It's not really defined anywhere.  Generally

    accepted, like we do, is we have two academic semesters.  We offer

    classes for at least eight months a year.  Presumably that satisfies

    that requirement.

         Adopt policies in a public forum to offer programs meeting the

    educational needs of the population we serve.  Again, obviously key

    function of the board.  You set policy at the college.  It doesn't

    tell you anything about what specific policies the board has to

    adopt.  Just that it is the responsibility of the board to establish

    that policy framework.





         Enforce the course of study.  So one of the things you will see

    from time to time, the administration will come to the board with

    this is a program that the college would like to offer, and this is

    the degree or certificate or whatever credential is associated with

    it.  That will be presented to the board.  You will approve them or

    not, depending on whether you're satisfied it's appropriate.  That

    falls directly into that third category.

         Visit each community college under its jurisdiction and examine

    the management conditions and needs.  So that's a little bit

    interesting, because Pima College is a college.  This sounds like

    it's referring to multiple colleges.  There is at least one district

    in Arizona where they are technically considered to have multiple

    colleges, that's Maricopa, because each of their colleges is

    separately accredited.

         So from an education regulatory standpoint, Rio Salado and South

    Mountain, et cetera, those are separate educational entities.  At

    Pima, we have one regional accreditation.  I just mention that so you

    sort of understand why that language is there.  There are some

    districts that have multiple colleges.  Pima only have one.  We are

    one.  Multiple campuses but considered one college.

         Again, it's interesting, you won't find anything that really

    tells you specifically what it means to do those things.  Those, at

    Pima at least, are accomplished clearly through board meetings where

    the board asks for information about specific topics, sets the goals,

    looks at metrics on how the college is making progress on those





    goals, all of those would certainly fit within the parameters of this

    requirement.

         Exclude from community colleges certain publications that are of

    a septarian, partisan, or denominational character used as textbooks.

    What's interesting about that is of course we do have partisan,

    religious, et cetera, other materials that are part of course

    materials, but they are not the textbook for any particular course.

         >> DR. WADE McLEAN:  Do we have to approve textbook adoption?

         >> MR. JEFF SILVYN:  No.  I mean, we could certainly provide

    information about it.  It's not required.  So this is also, there is

    an interesting tension here between some regulatory requirements and

    a long-standing principle of academic freedom.

         Faculty have a lot of autonomy as a group to pick their

    materials.  They meet, departments meet to discuss what materials to

    use.  They are generally not specifically approved by the board.

         We could certainly provide information.  If you think about that,

    that would be quite a gargantuan task to actually have to approve

    every specific publication that the college uses.

         >> DR. WADE McLEAN:  So systematically then we are not doing

    this?

         >> MR. JEFF SILVYN:  You're not doing what?  Excluding the

    materials?

         So another thing to think about is a lot of functions at Pima,

    the board sets policies, so we have criteria about what materials get

    used, and then administration, and in this case working with faculty,





    figure out how to implement that, have more detailed requirements.

         So one thing the board could do to have greater assurance of that

    is we could provide information so you see what the criteria are and

    how the materials are selected and make sure that that meets with

    what the board thinks is appropriate.

         Like I said, it's not realistic for the board to approve every

    single material used in every classroom.

         >> MR. GREG TAYLOR:  Jeff, a question, this is just theoretical,

    but so if someone, let's say a student or somebody had an issue with

    one of the textbooks that was being used, for whatever reason they

    thought it was bad for, does that theoretically come to the board or

    does it go through that process you were just talking about?

         >> MR. JEFF SILVYN:  So that would generally go through some sort

    of request or complaint process at the college.  That would be

    handled initially by faculty and then potentially by department

    chair, dean, et cetera.

         So the board is required to basically employ appropriate

    personnel to run the institution.  Certain employees can have

    multi-year contracts, but there is only a limited group that can.

    Generally employees at Pima, if they have an employment contract,

    it's one year.

         The board sets the salaries for the college.  And you will see of

    course the board voted on the class and comp system.  The board, as

    part of the budgeting process, will approve the overall salary budget

    and obviously there is a system in place to administer that.





         The board has the authority to remove employees if it thinks

    that's the appropriate thing to do.  The board has the authority and

    responsibility to award degrees, certificates, diplomas, et cetera.

         So it's interesting.  This is in the "shall" section, but it's

    actually discretionary, the college "may" have a police force.

    Obviously we currently do.

         The board has the authority to purchase, sell, and lease real

    property.  There is also some insurance obligations.  Those will get

    shared with the board every year.  Part of both the budget and the

    contract approval process, you will see different types of insurance

    agreements brought to the board for approval.

         Then there are a variety of discretionary powers the board has.

    Some of those, as you will see, relate to the receipt of gifts that

    are given to the college and managed for the benefit of the college.

         As I mentioned before, leasing real property, so we have the

    authority, the board has the authority, to both lease property,

    meaning we could be the tenant or we could be the landlord, and we do

    both of those.

         The college, through the board, has the authority to sue and be

    sued.  There are certain immunities for board members, and we will

    talk about that a little bit later.  There is also some level of

    immunities for the college, depending on what actions type of

    governmental function we are talking about.

         The board has the authority to enter contracts.  Some of that

    authority has been delegated to the chancellor.  Some of that is





    reserved to the board.  That's reflected in one of the board policies

    that talks about different types of contracts and dollar amounts.

    And that's changed over time.

         The board has the authority to build things and repair the

    property under the ownership of the college.  The board can enter

    agreements essentially with other districts to set standards and

    jointly purchase goods and services.  We do that in many areas.  It's

    just more efficient.  We get better purchasing power.  There is a lot

    of reasons why it's just more efficient to do it that way.

         Employee benefit plans is another discretionary power, so we

    don't have to offer benefit plans.  Obviously there is very

    compelling reasons to do so, and we have a variety of benefits that

    are approved by the board.

         There is some general authority about accepting gifts.  This is

    another one of those.  So we can accept gifts, grants, et cetera, and

    there are board policies about each of those topics with sort of

    specific procedures for each of those.  I wasn't going to go through

    those today, but just so you know, there are specific procedures for

    grants and accepting gifts.

         We have the authority to enter agreements with other public

    entities around Arizona, and we do that for a whole variety of

    purposes.  Those are a category of agreements that has been

    specifically reserved to the board, so all of those will come to the

    board for a vote.

         The board has naming authority.  There is a policy about that and





    a process for that.  So the college at different times has named

    things -- buildings, programs, service centers, et cetera -- either

    because someone has made a really substantial gift to the college or

    to honor someone who has really shown extensive commitment to the

    college.  Again, those will come to the board.  That's a

    board-reserved authority.

         A few years ago the legislature amended this statute.  One of the

    amendments they made was allowing the colleges to engage in really

    kind of research and development, innovative activities.  We have the

    authority to enter agreements with other entities in order to do

    that.

         Intergovernmental agreements on reciprocity, what that means is

    reciprocity with other states and their educational systems.  So we

    have agreements, for example, with the Department of Education in New

    Mexico, and we have an agreement where students from New Mexico can

    come to Pima and pay the in-state New Mexico tuition, and we have

    Pima students who can go to New Mexico universities and colleges and

    pay the in-state Arizona tuition.  We have the authority to do that,

    and we don't have a lot of those agreements but we do have a few of

    those.

         Pima's expressly allowed to engage in entrepreneurial and

    commercial activities.  There is a limited number of those, but just

    so you know, it is within the authority of the college, and in this

    section and in the following you will see about how that money is

    exempt from certain constitutional provisions.  That's expenditure





    limit.

         So if we do entrepreneurial activities and make money at it, that

    does not count -- those revenues do not count toward expenditure

    limit.  Expenditure limit, the easy way to remember is expenditure

    limit really applies to tax-based revenues.  That's a little bit

    oversimplified, but for general purposes, if you think of it that

    way, that will be correct most of the time.

         We can also collect fees for what are called auxiliary functions,

    so bookstore, cafeteria, those kind of things, which then implicitly

    means we are allowed to offer those services and take the steps

    necessary in order to carry out those services.

         We can contract with other state entities and travel governments

    in order to generally -- it says provide goods and services.  Really

    it's what we do of course is educational services.  The revenues from

    that are not part of expenditure limit.  Part of the reason for that

    is if you think about other governmental entities, their expenditures

    are capped by expenditure limit, so it's already subject to

    expenditure limit as opposed to being counted twice.

         We have the authority now to offer Baccalaureate degrees.  You

    will be hearing more of that as the college explores that

    possibility.

         I'm trying to think of what's other -- most of these others don't

    apply to us.  Obviously if we acquire property and we do and there is

    a delinquent tax bill we pay it.  That says it in the statute.  Of

    course we do that.





         The vehicle emission control is not really an issue.  If it were,

    this is what would apply.

         We can and do enter agreements of course with some of the

    technical education districts, JTED, et cetera, and others.  There is

    more statutory language about that, but this essentially gives the

    board authority to do that.

         Interestingly there is a specific provision allowing Pima to

    enter an exchange program with educational institutions in Sonora,

    Mexico, and we do have agreements about that.  And then of course we

    have certain responsibilities to facilitate transfer.

         So that's one list.  So the second list of, I guess I will call

    these primary responsibilities and duties.  These are really the

    duties that tie directly to the educational mission of the college.

         This is in 1445.  These are all listed as "shall," so they are

    mandatory obligations of the college, and therefore, activities that

    the Governing Board is responsible to make sure that we are carrying

    out in some way.

         So again, you will see the first one is adopt policies.  So the

    general operating parameters of the college are set by the Governing

    Board.

         The Governing Board is also responsible working with others to

    make sure that we have standards in place for accreditation of

    community colleges.  I guess I will just mention as an aside, one of

    the things that changed over time is in the past there was a state

    board for community colleges, which in conjunction with the local





    boards carried out a lot of these functions.

         Well, that went away.  The legislature abolished that board, and

    now all of those duties were transferred on to the individual college

    boards, and we have organizations like, there is the Arizona

    Association of Community College Trustees that provides, I may not

    have got all the names in that list, that our board has a

    representative and an alternate to because that's one of the groups

    that helps coordinate some of the functions you will see in these

    requirements.

         >> MS. THERESA RIEL:  Excuse me.  Was the group that was

    abolished, was that the Arizona Board of Regents, or is that still --

    was it a different group?

         >> MR. JEFF SILVYN:  Different group.  The Arizona Board of

    Regents is the group that's primarily responsible for administering

    the state university system.  There was a completely separate state

    board for community colleges.  I don't remember when that was

    abolished.  Sometime in the early 2000s if I remember correctly.

         So one of the things that happened is most of the property of

    community colleges was actually owned by the state board, and when it

    was abolished, all the ownership was transferred to the local

    districts.

         >> DR. WADE McLEAN:  Isn't that when the certification

    requirements for community college faculty went away?

         >> MR. JEFF SILVYN:  I don't know.  That's a good question.

         >> MS. THERESA RIEL:  I think so.





         >> MR. JEFF SILVYN:  And then of course the main certification

    requirement, if you will, is that our accreditor has certain

    requirements in order for us to allow faculty to teach four credit

    classes and other classes.

         The standards right now are pretty much driven by our accreditor,

    and in some cases by specialty accreditors, right?  So for nursing,

    the State Board of Nursing sets requirements for faculty.  For our

    aviation program, it's the Federal Aviation Administration.  It's

    mostly the regulators that are setting faculty credentialing

    requirements.

         Setting the tuition is the responsibility of the Governing Board.

    That's going to be appearing on your agenda fairly quickly.  I expect

    probably at the study session this afternoon David Bea will probably

    speak somewhat about that.

         The Governing Board does have the authority to waive tuition in

    certain circumstances.  And so, for example, it has done so employees

    at Pima can take classes.  We pay the registration fee, but employees

    don't pay for tuition, or their dependents.

         There are certain reporting requirements for data that you'll see

    we have to do.  That's what STAR, our in-house institutional resource

    office, handles, the reporting of all official reports that are due

    to the state.

         Establishing curriculum.  There is some overlap between some of

    these requirements and some of the ones you heard.  So establishing

    the curriculum is a board responsibility.  Again, if the college





    changes major components of classes, degrees, certificates,

    et cetera, that will come to the board for approval before it

    happens, and then also, depending on how substantial the changes,

    some of those also require accreditor approval.

         The board is also responsible to determine sort of entry

    requirements for different classes.  Most classes at Pima of course

    are open enrollment.  That's not true for some specialty areas.

    Nursing, for example, there are some programs that have prerequisite

    or other credential requirements before you can be admitted.  Again,

    any program that has those, that would be part of the approval

    process when it comes to the board.

         Requirements about establishing vocational technical education

    programs, that follows a process similar to what I just mentioned.

    Those will all come to the board for approval.

         We already talked about qualification for instructional staff.

         Requirements related to or the ability to transfer, again, these

    are all -- most of these things are not things that happen on an

    annual basis.  Most of these are already well-established.  They were

    established at some point in the past.  What would come to this board

    is if the college decides to make significant changes, those will

    come to the board for approval so that we are complying both with

    these requirements and with accreditor requirements.

         There is also some requirements here for coordination with the

    state board of education.  The state board of education primarily is

    involved in K12 education, but there are some areas, because of





    course there is a significant amount of transition from people going

    from K12 into higher ed, so there are some coordination functions

    mostly related to data exchange, preparing reports, jointly doing

    strategic plans, those sort of things.  That's kind of what's covered

    by the next few entries in this statute.

         Again, most of those, they will get reported to the board, but

    obviously the legwork for that gets carried out by different offices

    around the college.

         There are some specific requirements about entry for veterans,

    and of course, as you may have heard or you will certainly have an

    opportunity to learn more about, we have many programs targeted

    towards assisting veterans to further their education.

         There are certain requirements about the college requiring

    publishers to provide software and some other accessibility to their

    textbooks.  Again, so that's a college requirement, it's not

    something the board actively does, but Pima in its procurement and

    academic materials requirements follows those standards.  If you want

    more information about that, we could certainly have the staff that

    are primarily involved in those come in and talk about it some more.

         Subsection 15 is about dual enrollment.  So again, you'll see all

    those dual enrollment agreements come to the board.  You'll get quite

    a few of them in a typical year.

         The last requirement is sort of interesting is that all of our

    classrooms have to have a flag of a certain size and a printing of

    the Constitution, state requirement I guess to support civics and





    patriotism.  If you walk around all the classrooms at Pima, hopefully

    you will in fact see there is a printed version of the Constitution

    and a flag.

         I just went through that really fast, but maybe it gives you a

    little idea of sort of the range of activities that the college

    undertakes and kind of there are some more specific ones of those

    where there is a regular recurring board role, and then, like I said,

    some of them only come up when there is a significant change at the

    college.

         That's a lot.  Any particular questions about any of those?

         >> MS. THERESA RIEL:  I have a quick question.  Back on 1444, No.

    4, visit each community college under its jurisdiction, as I have

    been reading all of these Arizona Revised Statutes, how one

    interprets them is definitely significant.  So how I interpreted that

    was to visit the campuses.

         So I agree we may, you know, we may have different opinions about

    what it means, but will we ever get in trouble for interpreting it

    our way?

         >> MR. JEFF SILVYN:  So, well, the answer is potentially yes.  So

    the question -- so as you noted, there is not a lot of definition in

    here, and you won't find any, especially because there is no state

    board anymore that might issue clarifying language or guidance.

         Right, what does it mean to visit each community college or, in

    our case, campus?  It doesn't say specifically what that means.

         So could you get in trouble for doing that?  Potentially.  And





    the reason I say that is because, so as I mentioned, Pima follows

    lots of rules:  the federal rules, state rules, accreditor rules.

         If a statute gets interpreted in a way that's contrary to what

    one of those other rules is, the state isn't going to have a problem

    with whatever happened, but that other entity might:  federal

    government, accreditor.

         Fortunately, I mean, there's a way to interpret these where you

    can harmonize all of them.  For example, visiting, there is a

    guideline about, well, let the chancellor's office know, and usually

    we give people a heads-up and can arrange visits.  Or there also will

    be organized visits to different campuses to look at different

    programs, and of course if the board had an interest in a particular

    program and requested it, we could certainly arrange some kind of

    visit.

         Sometimes it's not the what, it's the how, that something gets

    done.  Usually there is a way to harmonize all of these, but I guess

    it's just worth noting it is possible sometimes to be in compliance

    with state statute but not be in compliance with what an accreditor

    or Department of Education thinks is appropriate.

         >> MR. LUIS GONZALES:  You have just mentioned, to visit a

    college, inform the chancellor.  Is that a written rule?

         >> MR. JEFF SILVYN:  So in the bylaws we have a provision about

    that.  Again, it's really -- and there is multiple reasons for it.

    It helps the chancellor know what board members are doing and what

    they might be interested in.





         It also allows us to track all of that.  So one of the pieces of

    evidence, for example, that we are compiling for the HLC

    accreditation, reaccreditation process, is we track, we want to be

    able to track the college-related activities that board members

    engage in, because that allows us to provide evidence to HLC to show

    that the board is looking into what's going on at the college, that

    the board is engaged with community organizations or endeavors,

    et cetera.

         So that's another reason is so that we can actually make sure we

    are compiling appropriate evidence that we are going to need to show

    our accreditor.

         >> DR. WADE McLEAN:  First page, item No. 8, help me understand,

    we are responsible for removing people that require removal, but we

    don't hire them?  And do we enter into discipline with employees?

         >> MR. JEFF SILVYN:  So this provision is about removing an

    officer or employee, if, in its judgment, the interests of education

    and the state require removal.  So if the board thought someone at

    Pima was doing something so serious that that person ought to be

    removed, the board has the authority to do that.  The one obvious

    person the board has immediate authority over, it would be hiring or

    removing or replacing a chancellor.

         I think your question is really geared toward, well, what about

    everybody else?

         So the board has delegated responsibility for sort of day-to-day

    personnel management to the chancellor, and there is a process which





    includes discipline and review of disciplinary decisions so that

    we're following a due process, fair process, making sure that

    decisions are well thought out before, well substantiated before some

    kind of discipline is imposed.

         So the board has the authority to do it, and if something -- so

    the board has the authority.  That's one of the authorities that's

    been primarily delegated to the chancellor who of course doesn't

    handle these on a day-to-day basis.  That's why we have an HR

    department and supervisors who work together on those.

         >> DR. WADE McLEAN:  I guess part of what I'm asking is will we

    find ourselves in a position where we're looking at an appeal of a

    termination or an appeal of a suspension of an employee?

         >> MR. JEFF SILVYN:  So the current system does not have appeals

    go all the way to the Governing Board.

         >> MS. THERESA RIEL:  So to attach a question to that, it looks

    like No. 6 says the board employs everybody.  Everybody's listed on

    that, right?  Instructors, lecturers, other officers or employees it

    deems necessary?  So No. 6 says we hire, the board shall do this, we

    hire everybody, and then No. 8, we also remove.

         So is it true that the law says it's our duty, but in the past

    different Governing Boards have delegated that authority to the

    chancellor?

         >> MR. JEFF SILVYN:  Right.  So boards have delegated, and then

    what happens is there is reporting to the board about hiring

    decisions and other personnel-related decisions, so the board has the





    opportunity to be aware of what's going on and of course ask

    follow-up questions.  But the actual specific decisions were

    delegated.

         So in the past, the board voted to approve all new hires.  There

    were some challenges to that from a practical standpoint from a

    couple of perspectives.  So one, of course, is the board was not

    involved in the hiring and interview process, so the board doesn't

    actually -- they don't know what the candidate pool was like.  They

    weren't involved in the process to see that.

         The other challenge that that -- so one was, and it's probably

    not something Governing Boards want or should do, right?  You're not

    going to participate in every hiring process.  So, one, there's a

    reality about how much knowledge the board might have about any

    particular decision.  The second challenge that the way this was done

    in the past was that the board had to vote and approve all new hires.

         That's a challenge for two reasons.  One is it caused a big delay

    in the hiring, right?  Well, I can't actually offer you the job,

    because the board has to vote on it, and so that depends on the

    board's schedule.

         The other challenge for some people was then their name is in a

    public -- it's published on a list that's open to the public, and

    their employer may not yet know that they are leaving, and it puts

    the individual in an awkward position, because technically they don't

    actually have the new job until the board votes but their name is

    already out there.





         So it caused some challenges.  So for those reasons, just kind of

    the practicality of it, a number of years ago the board delegated the

    day-to-day decision to the chancellor, which really means the human

    resources department and the relevant supervisors, but has some

    reporting requirements so that the board has an idea of what's going

    on, and of course if the board would like additional information

    about details of the process, we can certainly make that available.

         >> MS. THERESA RIEL:  We are going to call a recess for about

    five minutes.  Thank you.

         (Five-minute recess.)

         >> MS. THERESA RIEL:  I am calling this meeting back to order.

         >> MR. JEFF SILVYN:  Thank you.  Next topic, rules of conduct.

    We've already covered these, so I wasn't really planning to cover

    them in depth at this point.  Open meetings law, public records,

    conflict of interest, and some other ethical rules that flow out of

    state statute.

         Those were captured in the draft form I sent around.  If you have

    specific questions about those, happy to talk about it, or if you

    have a lot of questions, maybe we set a different time because I

    would like to get those finalized at some point, whichever way you

    prefer.

         >> DR. WADE McLEAN:  What specifically do you want us to sign?

         >> MR. JEFF SILVYN:  So kind of pursuant to the bylaws, the

    accreditation plan and just sort of some good practice, there was two

    documents that we generated.  One was an acknowledgement that





    executive session content was confidential, and a second one is some

    ethical standards and a conflict-of-interest disclosure statement, so

    what it does is it talks about, it kind of runs through basic

    standards that apply to public officials.

         For example, you can't use your official position to get a

    personal benefit or a benefit for a relative.  You cannot ask for

    gifts or compensation from a vendor or a potential vendor.

         It's things like that that are intended to preserve sort of the

    integrity and independence of the board.  So there is one form that

    kind of says here's what those are, and you understand you're

    supposed to follow them, and if you have a question, here is what you

    do.

         Then the other part is if, at some point, you do think maybe I do

    have a conflict of interest -- and it has happened for board members

    before.  We were looking at purchasing some properties, and it turned

    out that a board member had a partnership interest in a real estate

    partnership that owned one of them.  So she disclosed that, no

    problem, we documented that, and then she just recused herself from

    the conversation about that.

         One of the forms is just explains what a conflict of interest is

    and says if you think you ever have one, here's what you do to

    disclose it, and then we figure out what to do to make sure,

    determine is it or isn't it.  If it is, here's the appropriate step,

    and then we keep that documentation so we can verify that board

    members are being mindful about conflict of interest and that we have





    addressed it.  So that's the second form.

         So again, it's helpful as evidence to show, yeah, board members

    did take the time to review it, asked questions, agree that that's

    what they are going to follow, and then, like I said, tells you what

    to do if you have a question or concern.

         Maybe what we ought to do is if, following today, you could take

    another look at that.  If you have questions or concerns, let me

    know.  If not, let's figure out how we can finalize it and maybe we

    could talk about how to do that in conjunction with one of the

    upcoming meetings.

         >> MR. GREG TAYLOR:  I don't remember if I signed them or not,

    but if you want to give me the things, you can give them to me today

    if you have them, and I'll sign it and give it to you.

         >> MR. JEFF SILVYN:  Andrea certainly has extra copies.

         One other one I will just mention, because it might not be what

    you expect, and that's endorse a commercial service or product.  And

    what we mean by that is, as Pima College, we don't say this vendor is

    the best ever or this particular product is the best ever.

         That's because as a public entity what we are trying to do is

    promote fair competition and not put our finger on the scale.  So if

    someone wanted to know how we were satisfied with a vendor, we would

    answer that question.  But we don't go around promoting individual

    particular goods or services, and the same would apply to employees

    and public officials.

         Okay.  Liability issues.  One of those fun questions that lawyers





    get to talk to with their clients and client representatives.

         So we went through this whole list of obligations at the college

    and for some aspects the board in particular has responsibilities

    for.  Some of the ethical things we just talked about, conflict of

    interest, for example, those are responsibilities, standards that the

    board has to meet.

         For some of them there are consequences for violation.  So there

    is actually a criminal statute.  Misfeasance is knowingly failing to

    perform a duty you have.  For example, by state law, Pima County must

    pass a budget by a certain date.  There are certain requirements

    about that.  If the board didn't follow them, that arguably is

    misfeasance.

         Or let's say that the chancellor leaves, and the board says, eh,

    we don't need a chancellor.  We'll just manage the college.  We don't

    need to hire a chancellor.

         Well, there's a statute that says you're supposed to hire a

    chancellor and certain things.  Maybe it's a violation of that.

         So anyway, the idea is if there is a duty you know and you just

    refuse to do it or fail to do it, arguably it's a misdemeanor.

    Another statute to be mindful about is using college influences to

    influence the outcome of an election.

         So that applies to staff as well as to board members.  So the

    idea is that, again, political entities, we are supposed to be

    neutral in an election.  We don't take a side.  That's true for a

    ballot initiative, it's true for a bond measure, it would be true for





    an election of any of the board offices.

         So just be mindful of that.  This is another one where sending an

    e-mail is a real easy way to violate the law without realizing it,

    right?  If you used your Pima College e-mail account to send out

    e-mails to people, hey, there's a fundraiser for Candidate X, you

    should really go, you just probably violated that statute.

         Influence means basically signal to someone how they should vote

    in a particular election.  It's not likely to come up with respect to

    a ballot initiative or a bond, because we don't have any of those

    planned.  We have done them in the past.  Then we did a much more

    in-depth training about during one of those elections here's what you

    can and can't do.

         The most likely way this will come up again would be in 2024 when

    we have board seats up for election.  We will certainly talk about it

    in a lot more detail when campaign season kicks off, but in the

    meantime it's probably not likely to come up, but just be mindful of

    it.

         >> MR. GREG TAYLOR:  Just to clarify, I know we'll go into depth

    later, but can you define "resources" in there for me?

         >> MR. JEFF SILVYN:  Sure.  College resources would be in your

    position as a board member using a college room, using our website

    for something, using our e-mail.  Resources is really any, I don't

    want to use a definition by making -- a resource is a resource.  Some

    tool or capacity that the college has.

         Part of why this -- we will talk about it when there is a pending





    election more for board members, is as a candidate or as a private

    citizen, you have First Amendment rights.  You can participate in

    political activities.  You just can't do it in your capacity as a

    board member.

         So give you another example.  Let's say we are having a board

    meeting, and there is some election going on, county election, state,

    federal, some other election.  If you used, for example, board

    comments to opine about the election and really people should do

    this, that's a problem because we are using a college resource,

    right?  It's college time devoted to college business.  It's streamed

    through our web service, posted on the college website.  That's using

    college resources.

         >> MR. GREG TAYLOR:  So I'm not a resource.  So like, for

    example, using your fundraiser example from a second ago, if I

    participated in a fundraiser -- obviously there is no elections going

    on right now -- but I participated in a fundraiser, someone

    introduced me or identified me as a member of the board, I said you

    should vote for this person, that's not...

         >> MR. JEFF SILVYN:  Correct.  You might just want to say I'm not

    -- if you wanted to be really careful, you'd say, I'm not here

    speaking on behalf of Pima.  I'm here speaking on behalf of myself

    and I endorse so-and-so.

         Well, that's okay.  As an individual, you have the right to

    participate in the political process.  That's why I say when an

    election comes up, we can talk about this in a lot more depth, but I





    don't expect that to happen at least probably for about a year.

         >> MS. THERESA RIEL:  So along that same 15-1408, it says using

    facilities is also, to influence the outcome of election would not be

    okay.

         So when I was a candidate, a nonboard member, I was photographed

    in front of Pima's logos and Pima's buildings.  I walked through

    Pima's buildings.  I did all sorts of YouTube little, whatever those

    YouTube shows are called, but as a board member, would I be allowed

    to do those same things in six years when I decide to run again?

         >> MR. JEFF SILVYN:  Here would be the distinction.  Our campuses

    are open.  Any member of the public could come here and take a

    photograph outside of a building.  So if you came, someone on your

    campaign staff or a friend took the picture, that's not a problem.

    What you wouldn't do is have our PCCTV crew or others take the

    photographs for you, because you are now using college resources.

         Does that help?

         Candidates or people could use college facilities the same as

    anyone else.  What you can't do is sort of use your position at Pima

    or actually have Pima employees related to their regular work now do

    something that's going to be connected to a political campaign.

         It's a good question.  That's why when we get closer to an

    election we should talk about it in greater depth, because there is

    lots of things you can do.  There is some you can't.  Better not to

    cause a problem.

         This actually is a good example of because of something that





    happened at a community college that legislators were really unhappy

    about, this law got passed.

         On a happier note, immunity.  So when board members are acting in

    good faith and having conversation and making decisions at a board

    meeting, you have absolute immunity from that.  So when the board is

    basically carrying out its responsibilities and exercising its

    discretion and making decisions for the college in the formal process

    where that's supposed to happen, you have immunity from any claims

    arising from that.  If someone is unhappy, I don't like what you

    decided about tuition or property tax or approving or not approving

    this course, you cannot be sued individually for that.

         There is also liability coverage available for board members.  So

    Pima has a really comprehensive liability coverage agreement that, so

    again, as long as board members are acting in the course and scope of

    their duties, there is both defense and indemnity.  So defense is the

    college, through its liability carrier, would provide legal

    representation.  Indemnity is if there were a judgment or a claim, if

    there were actually damages awarded, then that would get paid through

    a combination of the liability coverage and the college.

         So it doesn't mean that board members don't get sued and named

    individually, but as long as they are acting within the boundaries of

    their responsibilities and what they were doing was actually

    something related to college business, there is coverage in place.

         >> DR. WADE McLEAN:  Jeff, so if we get served, what do we do?

         >> MR. JEFF SILVYN:  Tell me right away.  Most of the time what





    happens is people will actually contact, because general counsel's

    office or legal department is listed on the website, usually they

    will contact us first to talk about that.  But if you got served, you

    should notify us right away so we can put the carrier on notice and

    get legal counsel arranged immediately so that there is no delay.

         I was just going to mention a few things.  Relationship with the

    chancellor, so specific responsibilities, this flows both from kind

    of general principles of what boards do as well as some of the

    statutory provisions we looked at before.

         The board is responsible for hiring the chancellor, delegating

    authority to the chancellor, which is done in a variety of ways

    through the employment contract, through the bylaws, through board

    policies, through the goals that are set for the chancellor.

         Supervise the chancellor, so regular valuation.  There is a

    formal annual evaluation, and then on an ongoing basis the board

    provides feedback.  Goal setting, which I mentioned before.  If and

    when appropriate, replace the chancellor is also the responsibility

    of the board.

         Any questions about any of those?

         Role of legal counsel.  We have discussed this a little bit.  I

    will not spend too much time on it.

         So the role of legal counsel at Pima is defined really by two

    sets of rules.  One is the Arizona Rules of Professional Conduct.

    Those are rules set by the State Supreme Court and Arizona State Bar

    and Board Policy 6.01.





         There is a board policy that specifically discusses the role of

    counsel on the relationship.  So when I got to Pima, I was the first

    in-house legal counsel, so that's one of the first things I did is

    say, well, we ought to have a board policy about this.  This language

    tracks what was used at Maricopa and other community colleges.  It's

    a pretty close model.

         Part of this was to clarify that the college is the client.

    Obviously Pima is not a person, so it can't do things.  It does

    things through people.  The client then are the authorized

    decision-makers, so starting with the board, chancellor, and whoever

    has been delegated a specific responsibility.

         The client or the authorized representatives decide what the

    objectives are.  The job of the lawyers is to provide advice and

    implement the decision.

         That's really simply what the role is, and so one consequence of

    that is so my job is to help, whether it's the board or an

    administrator or staff member understand what rules might apply and

    kind of help them think about here's what your options are and here

    might be the tradeoffs of those options and ultimately they make the

    decision.

         So I guess I just say that because if it ever sounds like I'm

    telling someone what to do, that's not what I'm doing.  It's not

    meant that way.  A benefit and a hazard of being a lawyer is you just

    give advice, clients make decisions, and then you carry them out.

         I know that's really quick, but I'm trying to cover everything





    within our time, and we can certainly cover any of these in depth

    later.  If you want at some point to take the time and read that

    board policy, then I'm also happy to answer any questions.

         >> MS. THERESA RIEL:  This isn't exactly along what you are

    talking about, but if one of us or the entire board wants to look at

    changing a board policy, when will we be told, or is that just

    something we are supposed to know how to do that?

         >> MR. JEFF SILVYN:  So if a board member wants to -- so if you

    look at the board policies, there are dates when they are supposed to

    be reviewed and updated, but really at any time if any board members

    thinks we should really look at this issue, then let the chancellor's

    office know and we will kind of talk about how the process works.

         Typically -- so sometimes board members have initiated requests,

    you know, I think we should look at this issue, and typically what we

    will do is probably have a study session so we can talk about it more

    in depth and have people from areas impacted provide information.

         Typically what those people would do, depending on what the

    direction is from the board, might provide some ideas.  Well, if

    that's what you are trying to do, then you could change this or

    change that.

         Board policies as a whole are all assigned to different

    administrative units, and in the next session I do with you I'm going

    to have my colleague Seth here talk, he will talk more in depth about

    that.  But essentially different units of the college are responsible

    for periodically updating board policies, and then they'll come to





    the board, here is what we're thinking, what's your perspective, is

    there any particular things we should be mindful of, and then provide

    recommendations.

         It's always a two-step process with the board.  There will be a

    reading, kind of discussion meeting, to just talk about it.  Then

    there will be a later vote.  It could be more than that depending on

    how many changes or ideas there are.  But there will always be

    separate meetings of let's talk about it, look at possible

    recommendations, get direction from the board, versus the meeting

    where the vote actually happens.

         >> DR. WADE McLEAN:  Specifically what are the requirements if

    there is an amendment or a change in a policy, public readings,

    number of public readings, what's our responsibility?

         >> MR. JEFF SILVYN:  So the minimum requirement is one public

    reading and then at the next meeting it could be voted on.

         At Pima, the other thing we always do is we don't change board

    policies unless we do a couple of other things.  One is it goes to

    all the governance groups, Faculty Senate, Staff Council, et cetera,

    for them to have an opportunity to look at it and comment.

         We post it for 21 days, so anyone at Pima or the community could

    make comments.  We collect all those comments.  We provide it to the

    board and the unit that's kind of the lead on that policy to consider

    it and figure out whether they are making good suggestions or there

    is other things we should take into account.  So all of that will

    happen before the vote meeting.





         So if the real question is how long does it take, it's usually a

    few months if we are going to do the thing from, if we follow the

    normal process and make sure we are circulating it and giving

    everyone an opportunity to comment, it's at least two months.

         >> DR. WADE McLEAN:  If it affects personnel, does that take

    longer?

         >> MR. JEFF SILVYN:  No, it would be similar.  The only exception

    would be let's say there was a change of law or some emergency thing

    happened, then clearly the board could change the policy.  We'd

    probably still go back and do a review process to see if adjustments

    were made.  But you could adopt an interim policy quickly if you had

    to.  But typically, whether it's personnel related or college

    operations, the regular process, and this is actually in -- so below

    board policies there is administrative procedures.

         Well, the administrative procedures for board policies and

    administrative procedures talk about going through, circulating to

    the governance groups for their review, 21-day, now sometimes it

    happens concurrently, so it goes to the governance groups and

    immediately will post for 21-day comment so it's not one after the

    other, they are running concurrently, but at least two to three

    months.

         Okay.  Board procedures, some of these I think you're already

    familiar with.  Agenda development.  The chair, working with the

    chancellor, will collect any input from board members about how to

    develop the agenda.





         Parliamentary procedure I put in, should be in your notebooks,

    sort of an annotated script, if you will, that just walks through

    each sections of the meeting.  It's not a script in the sense of you

    have to read this.  It's just sort of here's an example of what you

    could say and kind of how it works with some examples.

         So that may also be another good thing for you to just take some

    time and take a look at it, and then if you have follow-up questions

    or you think that maybe there is a way we should change some of that,

    then let's have that conversation.

         Where did this come from?  So we don't follow Robert's Rules

    exactly.  Robert's Rules is like an encyclopedia.  It's really

    cumbersome, and it's not intended for small bodies.  It's intended

    for legislators with 100-plus people.

         So we follow a simplified version of Robert's Rules that's pretty

    consistent among most small boards, which is where what you are

    seeing comes from.  For example, in Robert's Rules, there's no such

    thing as a friendly amendment, but in our board meetings it makes a

    lot of sense and it's a practice used by most of the smaller local

    governing bodies.  What you are seeing in there is basically Robert's

    Rules but modified for smaller organizations.

         Last one on this, responding to complaints, so there is a process

    in the bylaws for about reporting complaints, concerns.  Generally,

    depending on what it is, you go to the board chair, the chancellor or

    me or all of us or any combination of that, and depending on what it

    is, then we will work with the board to figure out what the





    appropriate remedy is.

         The one, I guess, caution I will raise, part of the reason we

    have this process is so board members are not investigating

    complaints themselves.  There is a lot of reasons not to do that.

         The other thing I would just share is you will of course get a

    lot of complaints, especially because you're new, right?  When Lee

    joined Pima, lots of people came to him with complaints.  Every time

    there has been new board members, people go to them with complaints.

         One of the reasons we have a process and we want to make sure we

    do a thorough review is sometimes people have a sincere belief but

    they are mistaken.  So we want to do a thorough investigation to make

    sure that what they are saying is true.

         I will share, I kind of have learned that lesson myself the hard

    way.  I had one time where someone came into my office, shared a

    concern, and I thought, well, that is concerning.  I can see why

    you're concerned about that.  I went storming down the hallway to a

    manager's office and had a conversation, and of course what I found

    out was the person didn't know a lot of things about what happened.

         Based on their little piece of information, they had a serious

    concern which made sense, but when you knew the full picture it was

    really different.

         The other experience I had was in an employment case, an employee

    came forward, a female employee came forward and complained about

    sexual harassment, and she had a couple of e-mails to verify her

    story.  When you heard what she said and you looked to the e-mails,





    it was very concerning and it seemed like there was a serious

    problem.

         When we did the thorough investigation, interviewed some people

    and looked at all of the e-mails, it turned out it was the other way

    around.  She was actually the aggressor and the male had tried to

    break it off, and she was upset with him.

         So what I thought was one thing turned out to be radically

    different, which is why we just want to be careful that we follow an

    appropriate process so we do the best possible to really get a full

    understanding of what the situation is and what happened.

         There is people at Pima who are trained in how to do that, and in

    appropriate situations we also bring in outside people to do it, so

    that way we have people who are really expert in doing it and we can

    rely on their experience and skills.

         >> MS. THERESA RIEL:  Real quick question.  I was looking at that

    last Article 12 about the complaints, and on No. 2B or 2A on the

    very, very end it says the recipient of the complaint, including an

    individual board member, shall notify the board chair and college

    general counsel of the complaint who shall notify all board members

    as soon as possible.

         Is that referring to the board chair or to the general counsel or

    both of them doing the notifying all the board members as soon as

    possible?

         >> MR. JEFF SILVYN:  So they don't both have to do the notifying,

    but in the past, what has happened is if there is a serious





    complaint, if it came to me, then I will notify the board chair.  If

    it comes to the board chair, they notify me and then we figure out

    who should send the notice.

         We don't send duplicate notices, I think is what you are asking

    about.  There is usually a consultation, and then we figure out who

    is going to send the notice and what should it say.

         >> DR. WADE McLEAN:  Going back to board procedures, the

    adjournment, seems like we have two options.  One is the chair asks

    if there is any more business.  If none, you adjourn.  Or there is a

    motion to the adjourn.

         What's the chair's preference?

         >> MS. THERESA RIEL:  I'd say to save time, right, that

    four-and-a-half seconds, if there is no more business, I will just

    adjourn, if that's all right with everybody else.

         >> DR. WADE McLEAN:  Fine.

         >> MR. JEFF SILVYN:  That's a good example of if we followed

    Robert's Rules strictly, you can't do that, but it doesn't make sense

    in a small board like ours where the chair can just ask, right, does

    anyone have anything else?  No?  Great.  We're adjourned.  Works

    perfectly well.

         The last thing I just wanted to mention was Andrea sent out some

    materials just about kind of how travel process and charges work.  I

    just want to make sure everyone got that.  If you had questions, we

    will figure out how to do some follow-up.

         This afternoon at the study session, we are going to show you





    kind of what the calendar of some of the major outside-of-Pima

    training opportunities are so that you could all think about what

    events you want to go to, how you want to prioritize, et cetera.

         So that will be this afternoon.  But for now I just want to take

    a moment to make sure you all got the materials from Andrea, and if

    you have questions about how travel gets arranged or how things gets

    paid for, let us know and we will make sure to get those addressed.

         >> MS. THERESA RIEL:  I might have either overlooked it or not

    paid attention.  I did get something recently about the SAP Concur or

    something like that.  I clicked on that link, and I tried to see what

    it was about, but I didn't have the appropriate password.  So I

    didn't do something correct.

         (Discussion off mic.)

         >> MR. JEFF SILVYN:  Okay.  Apparently there are a couple other

    steps we need to take, so we will get those materials to you and then

    sounds like we need to get you log-in credentials.

         There is a training that goes along with that.  It's a pretty

    simple system to use, and it allows you to upload receipts and kind

    of streamlines the process.

         >> MR. GREG TAYLOR:  I use Concur in my regular job.  It is very

    easy to use as far as expense management goes.

         The quick question I had is the thing that's in this binder

    mentioned something about a card.  I don't know, am I supposed to

    have a card that I'm using?

         >> MR. JEFF SILVYN:  You may not have it yet.  So all board





    members are going to get a travel and expense card through the

    college.  I think they have probably been approved, but you probably

    just don't have it yet.

         When you make airline reservations, when you pay for a hotel,

    when you do all that, if you use that college card, that

    automatically feeds into the travel management system, and so it's

    easier and then you don't have to use your own card.  You just have

    to be careful of what you're paying for with which card.

         So if you accidentally charge something on your college card,

    which would not be the first thing that's happened, then you just

    disclose that and then we figure out how you pay the college back.

         If there is no other questions about that, I'm going to end this

    section.  I think the chancellor is next.

         I know we are throwing a lot of stuff at you today.  So anything

    you think of now or later, just make a note and then we will figure

    out how to do some follow-up.

         So this afternoon we are really going to be talking more in depth

    about the travel opportunities.  If you have specific questions about

    scheduling or booking things or how to pay for things, then what I

    would say is after this afternoon, let's get you an individual

    appointment, and then you can arrange whatever it is that you need to

    arrange.  Or if we need just a more general orientation, we can do

    that too.  At the end of the study session.

         >> DR. WADE McLEAN:  I'm speaking specifically about the

    conferences we may go to and what the college thinks our





    responsibilities are when we attend those things.

         >> MR. JEFF SILVYN:  Yeah, so that's on the agenda for this

    afternoon at the last segment of the study session.  We are going to

    have a calendar that lists what those big conferences are, and then

    we thought, we would speak with the board, you would speak amongst

    yourselves to decide which ones make sense, what are the priorities,

    who should go, all those sort of things, and then we will figure out

    the logistics.

         I'm talking about the one this evening.  So the 4:00 to 6:00, the

    last segment of that is like 20, 30 minutes just about travel, and so

    we'll put up a schedule.  If you have questions about what those

    events are, we will figure that out, and then you can figure out

    amongst yourselves how you want to kind of divvy those up.

         >> DR. LEE LAMBERT:  Do you need a break at all?  All right.

         Good morning.  What I thought I'd do this morning is just really

    talk about the vision and direction of the college and what it's

    rooted in so you have a sense of why we are going in the direction we

    are going in.  So I will talk about the master planning work that

    went on, and then I will share a little bit about some of my own

    community engagement work that I have been doing at the local, state,

    and national level.  But a lot of time will be spent on this first

    part of it.  Please ask questions as we are going along.

         When I first arrived here in Pima, I talked about the need for

    community colleges especially to close five gaps.  So I will talk

    about each one of these and how they really became the focus for the





    work at the college.  Not specific goals and objectives as much as

    here are focus areas and why these are focus areas.

         The educational achievement gap, you all know that as a country

    and as a community, we struggle with our students coming in

    college-ready, and it disproportionately impacts students of color.

         So that's why educational achievement is a big focus of what we

    are doing, and then as the work progressed here at the college, we

    initiated a design effort around developmental educational.

         That's one of the areas that we received a Bellwether award for

    the work that we have done.  So we have done great work, and I will

    be glad to share more about that later if you'd like.

         Another big area, no surprise, global and diversity.  So back in

    2005, '06, the senate, U.S. Senate commissioned an Abraham Lincoln

    Study Abroad report, and one of the conclusions coming out of that

    report, no surprise, Americans know less about the world than the

    world knows about America.  It is to our detriment that that's the

    case.

         Well, it's not gotten any better since then.  So what happens in

    that report is at that time probably less than a quarter of Americans

    actually held a passport.  Then when Americans would go travel

    abroad, guess where they would go travel abroad to?  Primarily Europe

    or other Western nations, again to the detriment of the United

    States.

         Of course some rule changes, so that number is up higher now

    because to go to Mexico you have to have a passport.  To go to Canada





    you have to have a passport.  But that hasn't really changed the

    reality that Americans aren't really going to these other countries

    where we know less about that are critical to our national security,

    to our economic security.

         That's why a big focus on global is, so what's the next-best

    thing we can do as a college?  Well, bring the world here and create

    powerful learning opportunities for engagement with students from

    across the globe.  Because most of our students cannot afford to go

    to these other countries.

         However, we have done some things.  We have really upped our

    Study Abroad Program here.  We have sent students to Ireland, to

    China, and they come back and they think of the world differently,

    having had those experiences.

         So that's why that focus on global.  For me, yes, it brings in

    revenue, but it's not about the revenue as much as about the learning

    and the engagement opportunities for our folks here in Tucson.

         And then the diversity piece I think speaks for itself that we

    have to be ever vigilant and make sure that all of our students not

    only have access but more importantly complete and go on to better

    opportunities in the community, especially opportunities that allow

    for a livable, sustainable wage, as well as being a more well-rounded

    individual for the broader society.  So that's kind of the global.

         The technology gap, again, no surprise there.  This is

    transforming every aspect of our lives, but back then, that was back

    when, you know, a lot of colleges weren't really moving into the





    online space.  A lot of folks resisted the online space.  Many folks

    thought, well, this is just a passing fad.

         Well, I think we all know the answer to that now.  It's not a

    passing fad.  It has been a transformative area of what we do in

    higher education.  And the likes -- Coursera has really just outpaced

    everybody.  Going through the pandemic and coming out of the

    pandemic, they have really transformed the landscape around the use

    of online education.

         Now, I'm not saying it's perfect, because there is issues with

    it, but just know that that was the initial focus around technology.

    So when I got here, I worked with faculty to create a task force that

    ultimately led to the creation of PimaOnline.  Thank goodness we did

    that, because that positioned us nicely going into the pandemic.

         But technology is more than just online, just so you know.  Now

    we are focused on what we call the four super powers.  That's based

    on an article written by Pat Gelsinger.  He was the former CEO of

    VMware.  He's now the CEO of Intel.

         He talks about the enabling technologies of AI, artificial

    intelligence, cloud computing, mobile, and the Internet of Things,

    are really what's underlying all of that technological transformation

    you're seeing in our community and across the globe.

         Obviously, you know, the most recent manifestation of this is

    ChatGPT.  So we are going to have to grapple with the realities of

    ChatGPT into the learning environment.

         I have played around with it.  I don't know if any of you have





    played around with ChatGPT.  I have asked it questions, and it's

    pretty good but it has not answered my questions fully, and in some

    cases has gotten it wrong.

         Go ahead.

         >> MS. THERESA RIEL:  Chancellor, I don't know what ChatGPT is.

         >> DR. LEE LAMBERT:  OpenAI, artificial intelligence.

         What's the best way to describe this?  It's using the technology

    tools to help you scan and search the entire global database around

    any topical area you want to put into it.  It will write your papers

    for you.

         It is now writing papers for people, because you can just ask it,

    write me a paper on Topic X, and it will write a paper for you,

    drawing on all that data that's out there and creates an incredible

    document for learners.

         People have played around -- it has passed law exams, has passed

    medical exams, it has passed other exams.  That's how powerful of

    technology this is.

         Some colleges are fighting against it.  Some colleges are looking

    at how do we embrace this and integrate it into the learning process.

    What's happening is students are using it to write their papers, to

    do their homework.

         So I don't think we are going to be able to control that side of

    the equation.  So how do we bring it into the learning environment

    and help students use it responsibly.

         It's an enhanced version of using Google.  Think of it that way.





    It's an enhanced version of using Google.  Because it will do work

    for you, like write your paper, like answer your questions on exams,

    et cetera.

         >> DR. WADE McLEAN:  I was in the middle of the debate over

    whether or not the state was going to allow students to use

    calculators on a state assessment.  It evolved to -- it went from a

    significant issue, highly divided, to why are we worrying about that?

         Do you see that coming?

         >> DR. LEE LAMBERT:  Yes, absolutely.  Because it can be

    perceived as a threat, the threat being people are legitimately

    worried that these technologies are going to replace the human piece

    of the equation.

         So I think that's a legitimate worry, especially on the part of

    faculty and staff in certain areas.  But I'm of the mind, let's

    figure out how we make sure we are a relevant part of the equation

    and that we don't get displaced because we have shown how we add

    value on top of the technology as opposed to just letting the

    technology take over.

         >> MS. THERESA RIEL:  I don't think I'd ever be worried about

    faculty or, you know, the teachers getting replaced.  I think my

    worry as a former educator is that this is going to replace students.

    If students aren't doing their own learning and thinking, at some

    point they might realize that they are not where they need to be.

         >> DR. LEE LAMBERT:  Well, but it goes hand in glove.  Because if

    students aren't where they need to be, then they aren't going to show





    up, and then you won't need faculty because you won't have any

    students to teach.  I want us to keep that in mind.

         I think we're in a position to show how you leverage the power of

    these tools to enhance learning and enhance productivity and not be

    afraid of it.  That's really more what I want to illustrate here.

         Just like the calculator, right?  The calculator didn't end up

    replacing anybody.  It just enhanced that learning experience and

    enhances the work experience.

         >> MR. GREG TAYLOR:  I think that's the right approach.  We

    grapple with AI in healthcare a lot in my regular job.  I have talked

    to physicians that have said -- I don't know exactly which AI they

    are using, there's a lot of them out there in the healthcare side --

    but will say, I have a patient presenting with these symptoms, what's

    the most likely diagnosis, and the AI will come back with something

    that they hadn't even thought of, because they are prioritizing one

    thing over another.

         There was one I was seeing the doctor thought maybe the person

    was having a heart attack, and the AI said no, no, no, they strained

    a muscle in their ribs.  It turns out, yeah, they strained a muscle

    in their ribs.  They weren't having a heart attack.

         It can be powerful when you can integrate it where it could help

    that physician make a decision, but it wouldn't necessarily replace

    that physician in that scenario.  So, yeah, it makes sense.

         >> DR. LEE LAMBERT:  I think the other thing, especially when you

    think about AI, is that data analytics piece.  How do we make sure we





    are integrating more data analytics into what we do, because data is

    going to become ever increasing in its significance, but how do you

    make sense of it, how do you use it for good as opposed to some of

    the things we are seeing happening in some pockets.

         Just keep that in mind.  Technology is a big focus.  It's going

    to transform every facet of what we do.

         Thank you, Theresa and Greg, for coming out to the Ford ASSET

    ribbon cutting.  As you know, today's modern vehicle, in some cases,

    over 100 million lines of code that power the vehicle.

         So what does that mean for someone who is working on today's

    modern technology of a vehicle?  It goes beyond that.  By the way, a

    car has more lines of code in it than a fighter jet does.  Sometimes

    people don't realize that.

         Then the other thing that's going to happen is just the explosion

    of semiconductor, the chips in the car, the chips are going to be

    everywhere.  You can actually put chips in paint and paint your walls

    with these little microchips in them, and they give you all kinds of

    data points about your indoor living conditions.

         So that's why the whole issue around semiconductors is a big deal

    as we go forward.  Obviously our state's becoming a center for

    semiconductor technology.

         Let me go to sustainability and then come back to skills.

    Sustainability, there is two parts to that.  One is the whole green

    component, and then the other is just the organization itself.  Let

    me just highlight why I think those are critical pieces.





         So I don't know if you ever read Jared Diamond's "Collapse," but

    if you haven't, I highly recommend it.  He was really signaling what

    we are starting to really see happen more and more today.

         People were signaling that even before he came out with his book,

    but it's real.  Whether we agree with it or not, the warming of the

    planet, access to vital resources is something that we've got to be

    mindful about.

         So how do we educate and train our learners for that?  But also,

    at the same time, as an organization ourself, how do we make sure

    that we are being responsible stewards for the use of our facilities

    and the like.

         So that's one of the reasons underlying this notion of turning

    the whole college into a living learning laboratory.  I mean, we have

    this wonderful ability to use the data that comes out of the building

    for our students to learn on.  Why not leverage that?

         That's what we are doing.  That's partly part of the partnership

    with Trane is about, turning the whole college into a living lab.

    We're using, going back to technology, the digital twinning

    technology to create a virtual replica of the college so that the

    students aren't using the data that's happening in real time.

    They're using in a lag way but by using that digital twinning piece.

         It's lagging a little bit so they can't interfere with our

    physical operation, but they can learn a lot from our physical

    operation, especially in the space of energy management systems and

    the like.





         Then you're going to see more programming around sustainability,

    whether it's in the curriculum as well as, and some of our training

    programs.  So we have set a goal to reduce the carbon footprint of

    the college by 50% come 2030.  The modernization of our facilities

    and reducing energy usage, about 25 to 30% of that will happen just

    from the Trane partnership.  That shows you how much energy is wasted

    from how we operate our facilities.

         Then the other side of sustainability, and this is no surprise,

    states have been cutting their support for public higher education

    for a long time now.  When I first got here I said to the board,

    don't be surprised if the State of Arizona zeros out our state aid,

    because I could see the trend line of what was happening, especially

    as we were coming out of the great recession.  A lot of states were

    struggling, but no state struggled as much as Arizona.

         Then when you looked at the data from that time, the State of

    Arizona had cut higher education the most in the country.  Then by

    the time you fast-forward to 2018, our state had cut higher education

    well over 50%.  No other state cut higher education by that amount.

    No other state.

         So what are you going to do?  For us, that translates into -- at

    the time I got here, we were still getting about 7.5 million.  But at

    the height of our state investment at this college we were at about

    23 million.  So imagine every year having $23 million more for our

    operations that we no longer have.  So that's what we were faced

    with.





         And then we have other issues in this state, the expenditure

    limit, because what else is happening, not just here, but across the

    country, is the birth dearth.  Birth dearth is low fertility rates

    have translated into what people are calling the sansdemic, sansdemic

    meaning fewer people to do the work that is needed to sustain our

    current economy at its current levels.

         We are projecting in our county probably in the next 10 years

    about a 17% decline in the high school population.  Enrollment-wise,

    we cannot make our enrollments by focusing on just K12.  Just not

    going to get there.

         So how do we keep our enrollments at a reasonable, healthy level?

    We've got to go to all these other groups that are much more

    difficult to reach, and they have different expectations in terms of

    they want more convenience, they want access on their terms, they

    don't want necessarily a full degree, they want shorter term.  So

    you're seeing us evolving into that reality as we speak.

         The skills gap, I mean, there's probably not a week that goes by

    that you don't hear about the skills gap.  There is different facets

    to that, right?  In some cases it's not always about the people.

    It's about whether the people have the actual knowledge, skills, and

    abilities to do the work.  That work is being heavily influenced by

    the technology today.  So how do we make sure that we are closing

    that gap for our community.

         So when you take all of these together, I put them in that center

    piece there, which I like to refer to as the liminal space, that





    liminal space being that transition point from an industrial error

    curve onto the digital curve.  If we can close all five of those

    gaps, that will firmly move us from a 20th Century-based higher

    education model on to a more digital era, forward-thinking learning

    institution.  That's where we are headed.

         By the way, this concept of the two curves is based on a book

    written by Ian Morrison called "The Second Curve."  He wrote this

    book just before the turn of the 20th Century, and he was basically

    telegraphing to all of us across really the globe that this

    transition was underway.

         Ian Morrison, just so you know, he's the former president of the

    Institute for the Future.  You may know that name, Greg, I know he

    does a lot of consulting work in the healthcare space.  Focus a lot

    about that space but it really applies to all of us.

         That's what we are doing.  How does that manifest itself?  I made

    some references to it earlier, and that is the focus on the

    institution or the organization is going to decline.  The focus and

    emphasis will be on the individual learner.  They will dictate the

    terms of their experience, not the organization.

         So how do we keep pace with that reality?  You're already seeing

    this happen where students are getting credits from a lot of

    different institutions as we speak.  How can they stitch that all

    together into the certificate, into a degree, or depending on what

    they are doing, being able to be able to sit for a licensure.  And so

    that's an example of that transition.





         So the degree and the certificate, although they won't go away,

    they won't become the only outcomes from a learning institution.  So

    we are going to have to make ourselves more and more relevant to what

    that learner wants.

         I liken it to, I sometimes use the analogy of the Apple playlist.

    That is we can create our own playlist on our phones or tablet

    devices and just choose whatever songs we want and put it on there.

    That's what students are going to do in terms of their learning.

    They are going to stitch together the courses they want, and then

    they're going to go shopping with institutions who are willing to

    give them that degree for having done that.

         Where is this really happening a lot?  You're probably familiar

    with Western Governors University.  At Western Governors University,

    competency-based model, in one year for the price of probably less

    than $7,000, I can do a full Bachelor's degree in one year doing this

    model.

         So this direct assessment you talk about, Wade, this is what's

    going on.  By the way, our governor, if you heard this, he signed,

    just before he was going out, an agreement to bring WGU into the

    State of Arizona.

         Even if they weren't here, they were already here.  So you are

    starting to see this evolution with University of Southern New

    Hampshire, another big player in this online space and this

    competency base.  ASU has become gynormous in the online space, and

    if you heard recently, ASU signed an agreement with YouTube.  So it's





    already happening.

         So how do we remain relevant to today's learner and the future

    learners?  It can't be the way it used to be.  That's why I think if

    we focus on those five gaps, we will position ourselves nicely going

    forward.

         Any questions?  I know not everybody is going to agree with what

    I'm saying, but step back and look at what's going on.  If you read

    "The Great Upheaval," "The Great Upheaval" is really just chronicling

    all the things that have been going on in terms of the evolution.

    But what harm is there if I'm wrong?  Think of it that way.  What

    harm is there if I'm wrong?  But if I'm right, what's the harm?

    Well, there won't be Pima.  That's the risk.  So just keep that in

    mind.

         You wanted to say something?

         >> MS. THERESA RIEL:  I just wanted to mention, I do, I am

    excited about all of the, you know, things that are happening to

    education, but once again, from my perspective of being a math

    teacher, I did look up -- a community member sent us an e-mail

    recently about WGU, and said, why isn't Pima College doing something

    like this?

         I looked into -- it took quite a while, because you had to get

    past their firewall and had to sign up for whatever, but I think it

    was $7,000 per semester, and you could take as many units as you

    wanted.

         But I'm thinking about someone who wanted to get a degree in





    math.  If you wanted to get a degree in math and you paid $7,000,

    there is a good chance that you could maybe learn well two classes.

    So in that aspect, Pima's tuition is way cheaper than WGU.

         >> DR. LEE LAMBERT:  Yes.

         >> MS. THERESA RIEL:  I want to be careful about we don't put,

    you know, the -- it is great, it is exciting, but it might not be the

    fix for every single occupational and educational path.

         >> DR. LEE LAMBERT:  No, no, absolutely, right?  It's not going

    to work for everything.  But it's also recognizing that today's

    learner wants it faster, cheaper, and still expects high quality, and

    that there are providers providing those options to today's learners.

         Whether we agree with those as the best options or not doesn't

    matter.  That's where the puck's moving.  So keeping that in mind and

    how do we position ourselves.  I think the community colleges are in

    a unique position, because a lot of the stuff is taking place online.

         There are some things at some point you can't just do online.  At

    some point you have to put a needle in someone's arm.  At some point

    you have to get under the hood of a car.  At some point you've got to

    climb aboard the airplane and go through the body of that plane.

         So there is a lot of pieces that just can't be done in that

    modality, but how do we help people understand that so that they

    realize they've got to come back to a physical place.

         Underline all that, math underlies all of that, right, as an

    example.  So how do we make sure everything is integrated in a way

    that they see the value here at Pima and realize they have to come at





    some point.

         So I think what we saw coming through the pandemic and as we are

    coming out, is a lot of our faculty have really gotten to the point

    of saying, okay, this can be done in the virtual space, but this part

    can't be done in the virtual space, and how they integrate those two.

    We have seen a lot of that evolution happening here.

         >> DR. WADE McLEAN:  I think this is a real healthy conversation.

    One of the things that bothers me is when we talk global, national,

    and Pima County, the message that's being sent to our young people,

    and even our middle-aged people, is you can make a considerable

    amount of money in this community without learning anything.

         >> DR. LEE LAMBERT:  Right.

         >> DR. WADE McLEAN:  Yesterday we were going to the basketball at

    University of Arizona and we had in-laws from out-of-state and we

    want to go to breakfast.  Well, if you're in a hurry, you can't go to

    breakfast in Tucson because you have to wait in line.

         The servers that I have interacted with are very intelligent, and

    they are mostly young people because I think the old people are

    sitting home with their feet up.  But how does the community dictate

    what is employable?  How do we compensate the long term for our

    students to go to school and go into a profession that they can live

    longer and healthier as opposed to carrying big dishes with plates

    and trimming trees and chain saws and all this kind of stuff?

         Because you can survive in Tucson with that kind of income, but

    you can live very nicely if you get a good education with skill sets





    that are employable with employees, employers that pay more money.

         >> DR. LEE LAMBERT:  Right.

         >> DR. WADE McLEAN:  I think that's a dilemma that we are facing

    right now is what's the incentive?  What do we do to show these

    students to entice them to work harder at a higher level, get a math

    degree, become an engineer?  I don't think K12 is doing a very good

    job of that.  So a good conversation, but where do we go with this?

         >> DR. LEE LAMBERT:  Right, right.  So that's where your Pima is

    going.  So that's what the centers of excellence are in part about,

    is what you just raised.

         So our vision, our master planning work is centered in those

    focus areas I just identified.  So we went out and contracted with a

    firm, it was two firms, where we did a GISing, Geographic Information

    Systems analysis of our entire service district, to look at where are

    the opportunities to those good-paying jobs, those family-sustaining

    wage jobs in this community, and how can we realign the assets of

    Pima to better create the pathways that lead to what you're

    describing?  So that kind of underlied the work of the Educational

    and Facilities Master Plan.

         The other thing that we did that's unique was we integrated the

    two.  A lot of places will run these parallel planning tracks, but we

    integrated the two to say, okay, you only need facilities to do this

    over here.  Facilities are not their own stuff.  So why are you doing

    them in isolation of what it is that you should be focused on.

    That's why we brought them together.





         So coming out of that were the centers of excellence.  Those

    centers of excellence are aligned to the job opportunities here that

    lead to the family sustainable wages, and there are some exceptions.

    I will touch on that here, going back to your point.

         But how do we know we got it right?  We pressure-tested it by

    holding forums and brought in folks from the community and asked, did

    we get this right?

         They absolutely overwhelmingly said, you got it right.  That's

    where the center of excellence for Applied Technology comes from.  It

    has three verticals in it.  There's the transportation vertical,

    there is the manufacturing vertical, and then there is the

    construction technology vertical in the Applied Technology.

         So that's why the investment at the airport to expand, because we

    knew that there was demand for being an A&P technician, airframe and

    powerplant is what A&P stands for, and those are really good

    family-sustaining paying wages in this community but also across the

    country.

         Because we were able to show the data, we had the business

    community validate what we were doing, that's why the state was

    willing to invest in that expansion of that effort.  We worked with

    JTED.  JTED was essential to that work, along with the other high

    schools in the area and the business community.  That's an example.

         Well, then we have another center of excellence in hospitality,

    culinary, and tourism.  Well, those don't necessarily start out at a

    family-sustaining wage unless you can persist through that into





    management levels where you can get to a better pay piece, but it

    puts you on a pathway that we can build off of.

         And then healthcare is another center of excellence that we have.

    We are doing the big renovation work at West Campus to double the

    size of our ability to train and educate in the healthcare space.

         Then you have IT cybersecurity is another area, public safety,

    all the ones I just mentioned all lead to those family-sustaining

    wages in this community.

         But there are also realities around that.  You've got to have an

    applied STEM foundation to really get into those career tracks.

    That's why we have created an IBEST model, integrated best

    educational skills training that contextualizes the learning of those

    developmental skills into that program of study.  So we are starting

    to see success in that.  We are doing more co-requisites, as well,

    and so again, those are some of the positive things.  That's aligned

    to the opportunities here in this community.  Our challenge is

    getting those folks to want to come here.

         So Brookings did an analysis of all 50 states, and they looked at

    the metro areas, created these MSAs that are already out there and

    looked at, so how many jobs do you have that are low-wage jobs?  So

    in Tucson, when you isolate Tucson, about 49%, adult working-age

    population, are in low-income jobs.  49%.

         When you break that down, about 12% of those folks who work in

    those low-income jobs already have a Bachelor's degree.  About 8%

    already have an Associate's degree.  And then when you combine those





    two categories with the some-college category, that number jumps up

    to about 56%.

         So even with what we do, it's not leading to family-sustaining

    wages for some members of our community.  But what we found,

    launching the micropathways, is we are recapturing some of those

    students who probably would not have come back.  Then we are getting

    on, the micropathways are an onramp into the larger programs.  Some

    of those folks may want to go on.  Some of those folks may want to

    just go directly that may help them with the current work that they

    are in.

         But it's going to be an ongoing challenge, there's no question

    about that.  The demands in the healthcare space alone, Pima alone

    can't meet the need.  There is just no way.  We just don't have the

    capacity.

         But those are some of the best-paying jobs in this community.  We

    could probably turn the whole West Campus into just a healthcare

    piece, and maybe we'd get closer, but the cost to do that would be

    beyond what we'd be able to afford.  So keep that in mind.

         The other thing that we are doing, it wasn't in the master

    planning work, but we got work underway now, we are looking at

    applied Baccalaureate degrees.  Given the rules that are at play in

    the State of Arizona and the Higher Learning Commission, we are only

    going to be able to launch two at this stage.  So we are in the

    process of vetting which two.  The way the legislature created that

    law was it could only be in this applied area.  It had to be that





    there were jobs.

         So we can't go out and offer a Bachelor's in liberal arts, as an

    example.  So my challenge to the team is I don't want to do what

    everybody else is doing.  Let's figure out where there is opportunity

    that leads to good jobs here where you need a Bachelor's degree, and

    these will be the two.

         Now, Maricopa has an advantage over all of us, because each of

    their colleges are independently accredited.  Because of that, they

    can do 20.  So you have seen Maricopa launch a number of Bachelor's

    degrees.  Well, it's because they can do 20.  Plus they have been

    working on this long before that law got passed.

         Now, I will say this now, we are going to have to go out and

    promote this in the community before we launch it, because when I

    first got hired here, I was told that one of the issues they had with

    the prior administration was they were trying to turn this into a

    four-year institution.  So when you start to offer Baccalaureate

    degrees, that's what you're starting to become is a four-year

    institution.

         So I think we are going to have to go out and do some educating

    in the community before we launch, just to make sure we understand

    those resistance points and why.  But this is not like it was back

    then.  I think that's an important part of the education piece.  This

    is not like what it was back then.  But we are moving down this

    track.

         Then a lot of other things you are seeing us do, you can trace





    back to that master plan work.  Not all of it but a lot of it.  They

    talked a lot about career pathways, guided pathways, so that's the

    work you have seen us doing, and especially in the transfer space.

         Because a lot of the career technical ed programs were pathways,

    but the transfer side was less so.  And then there was a focus on

    teaching and learning centers, refugee and immigration centers.

    You're seeing that all coming out of this work that we have done.

         Any questions about that?

         Now, I have been trying to get us to position for the future.

    I'm talking 10, 15, 20 years from now.  We don't know what this

    community is going to look like that far out.  But can we leave Pima

    in a place for when things do evolve it can evolve with it?

         Yes, we are in that moment where population seems to be dropping

    off, but that's not going to be forever.  Then it's going to I think

    climb back up.  When that starts to happen, is Pima ready to step in

    and into that void and do something about it?  But if we are only

    thinking about right now, we are going to box in future leaders of

    this institution if we are not thinking ahead that way.

         So one area I will signal now is you're starting to see this, in

    California especially, the whole housing cost piece.  Their employees

    can't afford to live in the community in which they are working.

    Their students can't even afford to live -- so some of those colleges

    are looking at building housing for their employees.

         Well, Flagstaff is already there.  Flagstaff is already

    struggling to try to attract and keep people, because the cost of





    living up there is just such that it's become a challenge based on

    what they can afford to pay, right?

         I think we need to think about that.  So making sure that we have

    the available real estate for a future expansion in that way becomes

    important.  I will let you know West Campus, that property does not

    belong to Pima Community College in the sense that we get to control

    how we use that property.  That is Bureau of Land Management land.

    So we can't just go and do what we want on that property.  We've got

    to get clearance through the BLM, and it's intended to be used for

    educational purposes.

         So if we wanted to modify the use, we'd have to have serious

    conversations.  I mean, there is a lot of real estate out there, as

    you know, and over the years I have had developers coming wanting to

    do things out there.  I said, no, we can't.  Sorry, we have this

    restriction on us.

         Downtown Campus is ideally situated, but it's in a small

    footprint.  So that's why we have been expanding the footprint of

    Downtown Campus to allow us to position this college for the future

    should we need to do.

         We have been in discussions with NAU to have them potentially

    co-locate onto our Downtown Campus, and we would build a facility

    together.  So as a result of that, that's one of the reasons why we

    purchased -- I always get the name -- St. Elizabeth's.  You know

    where St. Elizabeth's, right there on Stone, not Stone, Speedway and

    just down from Stone, so we purchased that property there.  Right now





    they are still in there, but I think they are going to vacate soon.

         Then we are probably just going to level it for now and then look

    at where this NAU conversation goes, and that could be a potential

    home for that facility.

         We have been working with Pima County OneStop to create an

    integrated OneStop center, in this case, it would be on our Downtown

    Campus.  We have to have a place to put that.

         What we are looking at, thanks to those hotel properties that we

    have acquired, we have some square footage that we can work with, so

    that may be the place where we site our Pima OneStop, at least in the

    temporary period until we figure out a better solution.

         So what is a OneStop, right?  It's bringing all these different

    services that people go to in different parts of the community,

    housing services, job placement services, and put them all in one

    place, and that's happening in other parts of the county, by the way.

         But what's missing is it's not on a college campus where folks

    today need to go and get that skill.  So they will go there and then

    they'll leave.  But if they go there and are on a college campus,

    make it easier.

         So the earmark we just received with the county, it was

    2.-something million dollars, was to help give us some seed money to

    do this.  So we are very fortunate that we were able to get an

    earmark.

         We got earmarks for other additional funds.  The first year that

    they brought back earmarks, we also got funds there, so the last two





    years we have been successful in that effort to generate revenue to

    help support some of this.

         Any questions?

         >> MR. GREG TAYLOR:  Yeah.  This is maybe a very specific zoning

    question, so I don't fault you if you don't know.  Obviously limited

    land that the next thing that pops in my head is up.  So how high

    -- I assume there is some zoning regulation about building heights or

    floor amounts?  Do you happen to know what those limits are?

         >> DR. LEE LAMBERT:  I have Jeff here, so if I say it wrong he

    can chime in.  Because we are a state-owned entity, we are not

    subject to the same local zoning restrictions that others are

    restricted to.

         Let me just say that first, right?  But there is a reality,

    right?  We live in this community.  So if we wanted to build a

    10-story facility at Downtown Campus, who is that going to upset,

    right?  So we need to be mindful about that.

         Certainly going three stories, four stories, I mean, our

    manufacturing center is a three-story facility.  We haven't gotten

    big, big outcry about that.  But I think if we wanted to go higher,

    we're going to have to have -- and we do, when we do those projects,

    we talk with the community.  But there probably is going to be some

    limiter, not from a legal standpoint or zoning standpoint but from a

    community standpoint.

         Going back to the St. Elizabeth property with NAU, Catholic U,

    they recognize that they can't just function out of Washington, D.C.





    So they have been looking at locating in other parts of the country,

    and that was part of the original mission of Catholic U was they

    wouldn't just be in one place.

         So they came to Tucson as the first place they wanted to start

    their expansion efforts, and so we worked with the mayor's office and

    with the, oh, I forget the name off the top of my head, but an outfit

    out of Washington, D.C., to figure out what would make a lot of sense

    in terms of how we partner with Catholic U.

         We are now partnering with Catholic U.  We offer a business

    degree.  So it's a two-plus-two model.  Two years with us and then

    they transition over to Catholic U, but they start out as a Catholic

    U student.

         It's going well.  It started out a little slow because of the

    pandemic, but it's going well.  I think where it's going to evolve to

    is Catholic U is going to want more of a presence in Tucson.  We are

    hoping that that St. Elizabeth property could also be about

    university partnership expansion.  So we can accommodate -- because I

    rather they come and partner with us instead of going across the

    street building their own thing and now we are in competition versus,

    hey, we are working together and we're sending a strong message

    because of co-location, and let's provide more Baccalaureate

    opportunities for Tucsonans and give them options besides just U of A

    and besides NAU, and in some cases ASU.

         So Catholic U is here, so we are very excited about that.  They

    brought down the cost of their degree significantly by partnering





    with us.  I think you can get your four-year degree on average is

    $10,000 a year when you couple our part into it.  Because ours is

    really affordable, right, but when you average it out it becomes

    pretty reasonable for them.

         Anything else?  That's kind of high level around the master

    planning work here and the vision of the institution.  There is other

    elements that I have left out, but I want you to know there was a

    strategy behind all of this, that we didn't just come up with these

    ideas and start doing them.

         But there is a lot of intentionality to it, and it was very

    data-informed.  We worked with our employees, because we wouldn't be

    able to do any of this if the faculty aren't buying into it, if the

    staff aren't buying into it.  You saw it firsthand when you were at

    the Ford piece.  That's because they are all engaged with that.

         Now, we've still got work to do to get more folks engaged, so

    what we are doing now, I will say this one last piece about the

    centers of excellence, we are in conversations to create a center of

    excellence in the sciences.

         We are going to have a summit.  This is where we go out and start

    to pressure-test with the community.  Sometime I think March-ish.

    We'd love for you to all come and be part of that.  We just listen.

    We share what we are doing and then we listen.

         We are looking at having the science center of excellence be

    housed at the Northwest Campus.  Then another thing we are looking at

    and I will be having conversations creating a center of excellence





    around the humanities.  When you factor in the educational piece that

    we already have, factor in, we have the vote center, voices on the

    economy piece, and if you look at what we are doing with ethnic,

    gender, transborder studies, and then we start to integrate more of

    the behavioral health pieces, all of that runs out of our humanities

    part of the college, can we create a center of excellence centered in

    the humanities.

         Again, this is aligning to the needs of the community.  Then the

    community being part of helping to shape and form what that looks

    like.  Then we have a center of excellence for the arts.  We are

    looking to build that out.  That was part of the original work that

    we were doing.  So we have not evolved that much at this moment, but

    we are looking to do that.

         Now, the other thing that happens sometimes in these centers is

    we go out on benchmarking tours.  We go out and look at who is doing

    this well across the country so that we understand -- our goal is not

    just to do it.  It's to do it knowing that we want to be best in

    class.  What does best in class look like?  How can we bring that

    thinking into what we are doing?

         Anything else?

         >> MR. GREG TAYLOR:  You said that arts was part of the original

    group.  Is there like a timeline you're operating under?  The only

    reason I think about it is I don't remember when I read this article,

    so forgive me, but I feel like there was some, for lack of a better

    word, controversy recently.





         I think the U of A ended its musical theater program and there

    were some groups that were kind of decrying that, that it was so

    important.  Anyway, just made me think, you said the center around

    arts...

         >> DR. LEE LAMBERT:  Some of the timeline is based on the

    resources that we have.  So like, for example, when we have centered

    on Applied Technology, we knew we could bring the money in to be able

    to do that project, so we put that on a timeline.  So that's already

    close to being fully realized in that way, because that involved a

    lot of capital investment to do that.

         Another one that we were looking to launch was our public safety

    piece, moving it from the 29th Street Center to East Campus, but we

    were running into challenges on the resource side.  So we can't fully

    optimize the potential there without being able to generate revenue.

    So we went and asked the governor last year for $20 million

    investment.  Well, we didn't get it.

         So we are looking at making another run at that by asking

    Governor Hobbs if she would invest into this.  We'll see where that

    goes.  Because it is construction dollars, and we were trying to get

    it out of the ARPA money.  Former administration thought you couldn't

    use ARPA money for construction projects.  We have researched it.

    That's not the case.  You can use it for construction projects.  You

    just have to use it within a specified time frame.

         A lot of this is dictated by what are the opportunities in this

    community, do we have the resources, do we have the engagement level





    we need from the faculty and staff to create the project.  Then we

    create the project plan.

         So we were in process on the arts side to start to build towards

    a project plan.  Then our dean, his wife got a great offer on the

    East Coast.  He left us and joined her on the East Coast.  So we have

    had to take a step back.  We now have an interim dean in that role,

    so we have to come back and revisit it.

         We have lots of the facilities already, so it may not be so much

    about a place as much as does the curriculum, is it modernized and

    enhanced enough.  Do we have the right partnerships in the community

    to strengthen all of that, and is there enough interest in terms of

    student demand for those areas.  So we will be doing that work.

         Anything else on this particular topic?

         So in order to pull a lot of this off involves being engaged with

    the community.  When I say "community," I'm talking at every level:

    the local level, the state level, and the national level.  So I'm on

    a number of boards, a number of committees at each level.  I thought

    I'd just share with you just a few examples of that.

         So here in our community, I'm on the Southern Arizona Leadership

    Council.  I'm on the board of directors for that group.  I'm also on

    the Sun Corridor board of directors.  That's the economic development

    organization for our community.  I'm actually on the executive

    committee of Sun Corridor.

         I'm on the Tucson Airport Authority board.  Then I'm on the

    United Way board.  I'm the past chair of the United Way.





         So those are just some examples of some of the work I'm doing

    locally.  Then a lot of our employees obviously are on different

    things as well locally.

         I'm on the Banner advisory committee here, and then we have some

    of our executive leadership on the different boards of the hospital,

    local hospital boards as well.

         I'm on the Arizona Chamber board.  I'm on the Arizona Commerce

    Authority board.  So that's the statewide organization that is

    focused on economic development.

         So for us to have a seat on that board is very major for our

    community, because you don't get a lot of Southern Arizona folks who

    get a chance to be -- it's usually dominated by Phoenix folks.

    Downside is I'm going to probably be approaching my term.  But I have

    the relationships.  So that's the nice piece about that.

         Then let me see what else I'll highlight.  So we were involved in

    the reskilling and recovery network.  I don't know if you're familiar

    with that.  The Western Governors Association partnered with the

    American Association of Community Colleges and created this

    initiative to really help our communities as we went through the

    pandemic.

         So we formed a piece here in the State of Arizona, and then we

    submitted our proposal.  Our proposal was accepted.  So Pima took the

    leadership role in creating the reskilling and recovery plan for the

    State of Arizona.  That's huge that Pima took that lead.

         Then locally I was asked by Sun Corridor to lead a similar effort





    here in our community, so we created a recovery plan for us here

    locally.  So again, it's just an example of the impact we are having

    at the state and local level.

         But it ties back to the national stuff.  I'm involved with the

    apprenticeship work through the American Association of Community

    Colleges.  I'm on the president's advisory committee to the president

    of ACCT.  I don't know when he's going to term me out, but I have

    been on there for a number of years, so I could end up getting termed

    out.  I'm also on the community college workforce consortium, on

    their executive committee.

         I'm involved with the Hispanic Association of Colleges and

    Universities.  I'm directly on the membership committee for that.

         I'm also on the membership committee for the Higher Learning

    Commission.  Recently I was asked to sit on the credential engines

    board.  What credential engines is about is bringing greater

    transparency to credentialing, because there is already over a

    million unique credentials in the marketplace in the United States,

    over a million unique credentials.

         What is a credential, right?  Lumina is one of the big

    foundations that supports colleges and universities.  So that's who

    Lumina is.  So they define a credential as a degree or certificate,

    licensure, so those are things that make -- but there is no quality

    control over this.  It's just a bunch of organizations creating their

    own credentials.

         So credential engine is trying to take all of that and create a





    better, more transparent system so that learners as well as folks who

    would employ folks who get these can make better sense of what this

    actually means.  So I'm on that board.

         So Barbara Gellman-Danley from the Higher Learning Commission is

    on that board.  Ted Mitchell from the American Council on Education

    is on that board.  The chief strategy officer for the Society of

    Human Resource Managers is on that board.  Microsoft -- I think you

    get the idea, right?

         So Pima has been able to position itself in some very unique,

    high-level parts of this country.  That's why you're starting to see

    the kinds of success, because we've really gotten Pima's name out

    there, and we are being asked to participate in a lot of

    transformative work tied back to what we were just talking about.

         Those are just some highlights of my personal engagement with

    things.  I hope this board would want to see me continue to do that.

    Because I think that has a lot to do with why you're seeing the

    things happening here at the college.

         Any questions?  Lunchtime, right?  Thank you.

         >> MS. THERESA RIEL:  We are going to call for another recess.

         (Lunch recess.)





                         *********************************************

                DISCLAIMER: THIS CART FILE WAS PRODUCED FOR COMMUNICATION

    ACCESS AS AN ADA ACCOMMODATION AND MAY NOT BE 100% VERBATIM. THIS IS

    A DRAFT FILE AND HAS NOT BEEN PROOFREAD. IT IS SCAN-EDITED ONLY, AS

    PER CART INDUSTRY STANDARDS, AND MAY CONTAIN SOME PHONETICALLY

    REPRESENTED WORDS, INCORRECT SPELLINGS, TRANSMISSION ERRORS, AND

    STENOTYPE SYMBOLS OR NONSENSICAL WORDS. THIS IS NOT A LEGAL DOCUMENT

    AND MAY CONTAIN COPYRIGHTED, PRIVILEGED OR CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION.

             THIS FILE SHALL NOT BE DISCLOSED IN ANY FORM (WRITTEN OR

    ELECTRONIC) AS A VERBATIM TRANSCRIPT OR POSTED TO ANY WEBSITE OR

    PUBLIC FORUM OR SHARED WITHOUT THE EXPRESS WRITTEN CONSENT OF THE

    HIRING PARTY AND/OR THE CART PROVIDER. THIS IS NOT AN OFFICIAL

    TRANSCRIPT AND SHOULD NOT BE RELIED UPON FOR PURPOSES OF VERBATIM

    CITATION.

                     *********************************************